Transcript: Lymphatic Reset & The Big Six! — Dr. Perry Nickelston #013

0:00

Is the lymphatic system the infrastructure of your immune system?

Yeah, bang, you nailed it.

Perfect.

It's the biggest part and most important part of your immune system, without question, is designed to eliminate and get rid of inflammation.

If you have a stagnated lymphatic system, you're going to end up with neuro inflammation in your brain and your central nervous system, and then you're going to be in a whole heap of trouble with a lot of other stuff.

0:23

Medical doctor does not know how to adjust you or correct for any of the mechanical or if they do understand something's mechanical they want to cut and break pieces away for some reason.

In 30 days I lost 30 lbs of swelling, inflammation, body fat and edema when I started to work my lymphatic system.

0:40

Just the stuff that I teach now.

Simple, easy, almost so simple.

People say Doc that can't be that simple.

No way.

Yep, it is.

Basics always work.

We spent like an hour really digging in on the Physiology, but it's so good to have a practical thing to do at the end of all of that, so I really appreciate that it's such a simple method.

1:03

Doctor Perry Nickelston is a chiropractor and the creator of Stop Chasing Pain.

He's also got a really unique take on not only pain itself, but on the role that our lymphatic system plays in our health.

1:19

So I'm really excited today to expand my own knowledge about the lymphatic system and to understand a little bit about Perry's perspective.

So Doctor Perry, thank you so much for being here.

Welcome to the show.

Oh man, thanks for having me out.

I'm going to expand you for sure about lymphatics.

1:35

That's my that's my jam.

My joke is you had me at lymphatics.

You know, it's, it's so interesting to me because I've been saying this for a long time.

The lymphatic system is this system that we cut a lot of parts out of all the time act and act like it's routine, which lets you know we don't really understand the lymphatic system because if we're cutting out adenoids, tonsils, appendixes, lymph nodes themselves, like if this, if these are common practices, we must not understand some part of that.

2:07

So but before I get there, I just want to say this interesting timing.

I had a bit of an accident the other day with a dumbbell snatch and I've been in a lot of pain the last few days.

It's sort of my semi annual Put My Back Out week and I was listening to a podcast with you earlier today where you talked about sort of your origin story into looking at pain and it sounds like it kind of started with a back injury for you as well.

2:34

Yeah, it did.

I think that's common for a lot of people, right?

I mean, back pain is so prevalent in the at least the industrialized world today that, you know, people are getting back pain more so than ever, which is crazy if you think about how much research being done on back pain, you know, all the exercises, all the therapy, all the programs, medications and assessments for that.

2:58

And if the stats are going up, not down and we're missing something.

Yeah.

Or, or what I like to say is that we've forgotten things which are our basic and fundamentals of how we used to move.

But when we we became adults, we stopped moving, first of all, or then when we when we move, we do the same type of repetitive movements all the time.

3:22

So that's why I used to tell people you got to go back to basics for sure.

But yeah, my journey began with low back pain.

I was in my 20s when I first got my lower back injury in the gym.

I was doing some squats and I went down and I felt the click and I'm like, OK, that's, that's not good.

3:45

But you know, being a 20 year old, I just kept squatting so good.

Didn't feel any pain for the rest of the workout until the following day when my body was like, oh, I'm going to teach you a really valuable lesson here.

And then I couldn't barely move.

4:01

Could barely.

Nothing like cooling off after a click.

Yeah, I mean, I first of all, if anybody's listening, if you hear a click, that's a warning sign that pay attention to that one that that'll that'll come and get you later.

And I can barely walk.

I barely move.

And my training partner at the time said, you got to go see my chiropractor.

4:20

And I was like, Cairo, What?

I never heard of him.

This was back in the 80s, right?

And I said, sure, I'll go.

I can't move.

I walked into this cat and I walked out and I'm like, OK, this is really cool.

You know, granted I'm 20 years.

4:36

Old you walked out able to walk is what you're saying?

Yeah, I was hunched over in a lot of pain.

And then when I went in there, I was walking straighter with a significant amount of less pain, and I was only in there for an hour, you know, new patient visit and stuff like that.

4:55

And he does some chiropractic manipulations and mobilizations, but he did a lot of stuff I didn't know at the time, like trigger point work, myofascial work, you know, taking a look at the soft tissue structures that go along with that.

And then I'm like, that's really cool.

And it wasn't until years later that I decided to become a chiropractor and I focused a lot on sports, sports medicine, sports injuries, musculoskeletal injuries and stuff like that.

5:21

But later on in life, I ended up getting pretty sick from some autoimmune disorders and it was more of an immune system issue that I was having and all this, here's the lesson.

All the stuff that I had learned in the musculoskeletal realm and fascial realm and the sports medicine realm were were not taking me out of what I had with the autoimmune stuff.

5:47

So not that they are not helpful, it's just not what I needed to come out of what I call the abyss or the quicksand.

And then that's when I started to just investigate the immune system more, not so much the, you know, nervous system.

And that came across limp.

6:05

Before we go there, I want to ask this question and I asked it with full respect, so I hope this doesn't come across wrong.

But I I So I have a background in manual therapy and I worked in a chiropractic clinic for about 5 or 6 years.

And my impression today of chiropractic is that it's a pathway to becoming a physician for many people in the world of manual therapy who want to go to a deeper level with their practice, but don't necessarily subscribe to the original kind of traditional chiropractic philosophy.

6:44

I see something similar in osteopathy right where, if I understand it, like chiropractic sort of says all disease originally all diseases related to subluxations and if you could, which are are sort of like subtle misalignments of bones.

6:59

And if you can correct that all it's sort of everything flows properly.

Osteopathy has a similar background, but it seems like it's today it's more of an alternative pathway for manual therapists to become doctors without having to, because the American Medical Association is sort of vacuumed up all of the credentialing for doctors.

7:18

Because it seems like to me a lot of people I know who are chiropractors today aren't practicing just chiropractic, But, you know, they do a lot of other things.

Many of those things they brought to the table when they became chiropractors and so, so it's like a does that.

Am I characterizing that somewhat accurately?

7:34

Yeah, you got it.

You nailed.

It I.

Mean that you nailed it.

That was my journey too.

I mean that that was the my entryway into what I do.

But then I expanded out and studied a lot of other different things.

And that's the same thing is true of classical osteopathy that was founded by Andrew Taylor.

7:49

Still, his premise was very similar to the chiropractic premise.

And if you, if you think about it, you have to keep in mind how people communicate and talk back into how they talk back.

Now.

It's still nervous system dysfunction.

Like, I don't really care how you describe it as a subluxation or a fixation.

8:06

I'm interfering with the spine and the nerve root, and that goes to everything.

And that communicates with your brain.

So they were right.

Yeah.

It's just how they're talking about it.

And traditional osteopathic medicine is nowhere near like the current one.

8:22

Because the osteopathic doctors today are on par with medical doctors, right?

Yeah, but and they get training and manipulation and mobilizations just like they do in physical therapy school, PT school.

They can do mobilization.

It's a pretty rigorous credentialing as well.

8:39

So they're all.

Rigorous.

Yeah, they're all intense.

The reverse unfortunately is not true because the medical doctor does not know how to adjust you or correct for any of the mechanical.

They seem to be completely lost on anything mechanical and any mechanical influence on physiological things.

8:57

Seems like they just don't have the ability, or if they do understand something's mechanical, they want to cut in there and break pieces away for some reason.

Yeah, instead of just, well, you know what I always say that in all our fairness to doctors is that the the system they're in is, is broken.

9:14

I mean, that's, that's the way that they're trained when they go in.

If you want to be a doctor, this is what you have to do.

And if you want to try to change that system, it chews you up and spit you out is what it does.

And so that's why you have other alternatives, hence the word alternative medicine, Right.

9:32

But each plays its role.

You know, I mean, I have a high regard for the medical community because if you're dying on the table, you don't come see me, man.

Like, you go there and they're going to make sure you don't crossover.

Then when you come back, then you come see me, and then I'm going to work your lymphatic system or your fascia or your stuff like that.

9:51

But that's also a testament to where traditional medicine is really struggling in order to help people.

They're awesome at trauma and, you know, keeping you from dying.

But where they're really not good at all is what's taking people out now, which is chronic disease and chronic pain.

10:11

They're the worst at that.

If anything, I'm going to tell you they're putting people more into it with the approach because they're bringing an approach that works really well to trauma and it doesn't work at all to chronic pain and chronic inflammation and chronic disease.

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10:27

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Right.

Well, you had mentioned a minute ago, right before I sort of said that piece, you were starting to talk about lymph in the lymphatic system.

11:51

And I want to open up that space.

And maybe we'll just sort of say to the listeners, if you get your anatomy book out, it's the, the green system.

For whatever reason, it's always pictured as the, the green system, all the little nodes and, and connecting vessels, but such a fascinating aspect of the body.

12:07

And like I said, one that we see a lot of manifestations of illness in and removals of parts of, but so few lay people really, and I'd say this is true of of even athletes and people into health, very few people seem to really have a, a handle on this system of the body.

12:25

No, they don't.

Absolutely.

More people do now than ever before, which is great to see because more people are talking about it.

And the reason more people are talking about it is because when they start to work with it, they feel a whole lot better.

So it's like, how come nobody ever told me this stuff before?

12:41

This is amazing.

And I fit into that bucket as well.

So I'm, I'm going to go back to something that you said before.

I was one of those people that had lymphatic system cut out, cut away 22 years ago.

I had thyroid cancer in, in my neck.

12:57

And they removed the entire thyroid gland.

And at the time, they took out a pretty good amount of cervical lymph nodes, which are lymph nodes on the neck.

And at the time, I didn't think much about it because nobody was really talking about lymphatic system.

I didn't study lymphatic system in school.

13:13

Maybe 15 minutes just to pass a board.

But it was never like, look at your limp.

That was the first thing that I look at.

And none, none of my surgeons or healthcare practitioners said anything about the lymphatic system during my cancer journey and through the recovery process.

13:30

And now I know that most of your lymph nodes, which are basically the structures in your body that kill things that are trying to kill you and eliminate waste and also kill cancer cells, 1/3 of the 700 of those are in your neck.

Wow, One third, one third of the 700, right.

13:49

And if, what if you cut some of those away?

And then I asked you, so why would there be that amount in your neck?

Because your brain sits above the neck.

So their job is to clean your brain.

So at the time I, I firmly believe now one of the reasons I got cancer is because I had a stagnated lymphatic system for years prior to my cancer diagnosis.

14:12

And then it just shows up and manifests there.

And so they took it out, but it wasn't until I'd say 7 years later that I ended up getting the autoimmune disease where I just, I mean, I ran off the Cliff and I was just in a bad spot, had so much inflammation and pain.

14:31

You name the symptom, I had it right.

But it was a slow journey into that where of the seven years, I just didn't feel right.

And what?

So it hit me and then that's when I realized, OK, I got to go back.

I got to rescue myself.

14:47

I got to figure this out because nobody else is figuring it out.

Yeah.

And then that's that's what I did.

It's funny when you say like no one else is figuring it out, it's amazing how many people have a sense that like someone's going to come rescue them out of this.

And there's it's like once you see somebody make that come to that realization, Oh, I'm going to have to do this myself.

15:09

Like that's the beginning of the journey, right?

It's like once you have realized that, like, oh, that my doctor can't actually fix me.

Like I have to fix my so they they can do some things.

I have to take sort of self responsibility.

I'm curious how much how true or untrue is if this statement, if I said your lymphatic system is sort of the hardware of your immune system, is that or the the infrastructure?

15:35

Maybe that is is the lymphatic system the infrastructure of your immune system?

Yeah, bang, you nailed it.

Perfect.

It's the biggest part and most important part of your immune system without question Like it.

That's the thing that just amazes me is that it's such a big part of that system.

15:52

And then what is taking people out is an immune system gone haywire bananas.

That's chronic inflammation.

So, you know, chronic inflammation is the number one thing and is taking people out with chronic disease and chronic pain.

And then you have to look at, well, what system in the body is designed to eliminate and get rid of inflammation?

16:14

The lumphatic system and the immune.

Inflammation is an immune system response, not a musculoskeletal one.

I'm going to say that again, inflammation is an immune system response, not a musculoskeletal 1 So even though you injure A musculoskeletal joint, if your immune system is kicking in to go in there and triage it and try to clean it up and you need inflammation.

16:35

Inflammation is not bad.

If you didn't have inflammation, you would die sooner.

It's just inflammation turned on that doesn't turn off.

And a clogged lymphatic system that's stagnated will do that.

It will stay on.

If I turn my ankle and I get that big old, you know, grapefruit on my ankle, you're saying that that is not a musculoskeletal issue.

16:59

That's an inflammatory issue.

I mean, that is edema, which is fluid, which is the role of the lymphatic system, I guess, right?

So can you break that down just a little bit?

I just want to make sure people understand fully what you're saying there.

That's.

A great question.

17:14

I love that question.

Thank you for throwing that over home plate.

So all these different systems in the body work together.

Unfortunately in medicine we treat them separately, so they all play a role.

So let's say you twist your ankle, you will have an injury to your musculoskeletal system like you may strain ligament, tendon, you know, stuff like that and or injure your fascia, OK.

17:42

And then pain will kick in and pain is the nervous system kicking in to protect you and mobilize the ankle and say, how about we don't move the ankle until we get it taken care of, right?

And then your immune system going to kick into gear and start to send stuff in there to repair it.

17:59

It's like it's, it's a repair job.

I'm going to surround it with fluid, swell it, and then I'm going to try to send as much stuff to it to like what they call pro inflammatory things like you want it to get inflamed because it's part of the healing process.

18:15

And then it's going to try to triage that and get rid of it.

So let's say you're going to go into therapy to treat your ankle.

Your, your goal is to get the swelling down, right?

And then your goal is to get more blood flow there so we can heal and recover.

18:34

Well, that happens through the lymphatic system and the vascular system.

The lymphatic system's job is to remove that swelling and inflammation.

That's his job.

And it's killing things that are there in the ankle as part of the immune system response.

18:51

With so if you're in that lymph, you're saying?

Yeah.

So you got a lot of macrophages in your lymph nodes, in your lymph, and they just come in and gobble, gobble, gobble.

And what the lymphatic system does is it's the scanner for your immune system.

So when you have something the IT gets into the lymphatic vessels from the fluid around the cells, that's called interstitial fluid.

19:17

The interstitial fluid is the fluid that all of your cells live in, and the lymphatic system monitors that and cleans that fluid.

And so when stuff makes it into the lymph node, the lymph node scans it and tells your immune system, this is here.

19:33

I need you to send this cytokine out to kill it.

So that's the barcode scanner.

So like in a store, I know if I'm buying an apple or a pop Tart, you know what I mean?

So it knows what to do, right?

And so it goes from node to node to node to node.

19:50

But here's what people don't understand is that many times you can have an an issue with your lymphatic system where it doesn't function well prior to your ankle injury.

And then you have your ankle injury and your ankle injury struggles to get better because your lymphatic system had an issue before you sprained your ankle.

20:11

And then so that's why people struggle with recovery and an injury like that, because I'm going to tell you you're only going to recover as well from that ankle injury as your vascular system.

And your lymphatic system works, period.

And when you study the lymphatics, it's not just part of your immune system, man.

20:31

It's part of your vascular system.

Yeah.

So it will influence vascular flow.

And your ankle is not healing if you don't get good basket or flow to it, but not just to it, but away from it.

20:47

Yep.

And that's the vein side.

That's the vein side.

But before we go, let me ask one more question and just tell me if this is if I'm in the ballpark here.

Yep.

Would it be fair to say that the traditional view up until now, probably still in medical schools is your lymphatic system is sort of the fluid recovery and waste disposal system, like the like the sewage system?

21:14

And then but what I'm hearing from you is like, well, yeah, it has that role, but it's a much more sophisticated, nuanced intelligence system, not just this passive fluid recovery then that it actually has a much more important role that has been sort of traditionally understood.

21:32

Yeah, and that's going to keep expanding now that they're researching it more, you know, and so and that they used to be the same thing with fascia, you know, everybody's fascia, fascia now.

There used to be a time when medicine didn't look twice at that stuff.

They would just cut right through it and say it's in the way.

21:48

I got to get to my organ, forget that stuff.

Now we know Oopsie, Daisy, that's kind of a big deal.

And the same thing that they're realizing here with the lymphatic system, because if you have a stagnated lymphatic system, you're going to end up with neuro inflammation in your brain and your central nervous system.

22:09

And then you're going to be in a whole heap of trouble with a lot of other stuff, which we can gladly get into later.

But yeah, but you know, honestly, even with that role, I, I kind of gave you the secret of why this is so powerful, the system you have a couple of trillion cells in your body with AT this.

22:26

They don't live in blood, they live in fluid.

They live in interstitial fluid, which you're like a walking body aquarium fish tank.

You're mostly fluid and the cells are hanging out in there, that stuff and that fluid sits into something that recently talking about that they discovered called the interstitial.

22:49

That's like the, the spaces that the interstitial is in, like the fish tank.

And if that fluid, it becomes stagnated and it gathers waste, you're going to get sick, you're going to have pain, you're going to struggle to recover because it's physiologically impossible to get beyond dirty fluid.

23:14

And the only system, I'm going to say, I'm going to say it again, the only system that keeps that fluid clean is the lymphatics.

That's it.

So that fluid has to that fluid has to get into the venous system to be carried to places like the liver and kidneys for clearing it right.

23:35

So so you have The interstitial fluid is being processed by the lymphatic system, but it does ultimately dump into the circulatory system for.

Elimination.

So it was part of your vascular system.

So all these fluid systems have different names, but they all interconnect with each other.

23:51

They're all inside the same body.

So as soon as you start breaking them apart, you're lost, like you're not getting out of the quicksand.

So let me let me show you how this works.

Do you know what they call interstitial fluid?

It's called pre lymphatic fluid.

24:08

Pre.

So what does that mean?

That interstitial fluid will become lymphatic fluid because that fluid is going to flow into lymph nodes.

OK, through lymphatic vessels?

Yeah, to to lymphatic vessels.

24:25

Yeah, they, they get into the the the lymphatic system and then like the gathering point, these end end endpoint capillaries, they're called and then they'll send them to a lymph node.

So it's like a chain, right?

But to me it's same fluid, like you're just calling it a different name because it went from this point to that point.

24:46

But it's the.

Same stuff, right?

So now the lymphatic fluid, the people say, well, where's that going that's going to dump into the veins.

OK, so lymph dumps into veins, but it's not called lymph anymore, It's called plasma.

25:03

Right.

And where does that?

Yeah, same fluid.

Where does that plasma go?

You ever heard of blood plasma?

So it goes from the veins, because veins have to now go into arteries.

And then where do arteries go?

25:20

Arteries end at capillaries, which dump into interstitial fluid.

So the cycle continues.

Round and round.

So what I'm saying is that if you have a block in one, my friend, you're going to have a problem with all the other ones in the connection system.

25:39

So if the if the lymph gets stagnated, the interstitial fluid gets stagnated, the veins get stagnated.

And then you also have a problem with the delivery mechanism on the artery side because what are the arteries send everywhere energy, oxygen, nutrients, amino acids, all the supplements, you slam it down your throat, all the macro micro.

26:08

And I always ask people, they only get somewhere through blood.

That's it.

And the if the blood struggles to get there because the limp struggles to get there.

So to get out.

So let's go back to your ankle again.

26:25

So you you will struggle to heal your ankle even though you're trying to send blood flow to it, because your body's not going to let you put flow into something that it can't get back out.

Otherwise you just end up with more edema.

26:40

Yeah, swelling and swelling and.

Swelling.

It's got no room it it only has a capacity for so many things.

In that interstitial right, there's only so much space.

Yeah, and even in the body.

So this is when you have to learn the routes of the lumbatic system and why medicine gets lost because they're just going to look at your ankle.

26:58

And then what I'm going to say is I'm going to ask the trick question.

Where is all the swelling and inflammation and edema from your ankle?

Where is it trying to go to?

Where's the exit route?

Well, it's ultimately trying to go through the lymph nodes from your ankle all the way up to the drain at your collarbone to the veins in your left side collarbone.

27:20

So no matter what foot hurts, it's going to the left side collarbone, then it's going to go in there.

If it can reach it, then it'll go through the system and then you're going to pee out.

Your that's the primary way that your stuff gets out is through urination.

OK, I bet the blood also goes through all the other detox organs.

27:38

You know, your liver, your lungs, could you breathe stuff out?

You sweat stuff out, you poop stuff out.

So most of your organs are designed to get stuff out of you so you don't die.

But here's the thing, the organs also live in the same fluid.

27:55

So if your fluid is stagnated, so are your organs.

So in osteopathic medicine, this is where I'm going to bring this full circle.

Man, this is so cool.

Andrew Taylor, still the founder of osteopathic medicine, has been by far the single most influential person in my thinking process and in my recovery.

28:15

The man was a.

29:27

He created that because he was an MD and he lost his entire family to disease.

And he said, I'm going to figure another way out.

And I was struggling to get better because I was trying to do all these things from nutrition and supplements and all this stuff.

29:43

And I'm trying to jam everything into my body to get it better.

And I saw this phrase in a, in a book from 19/23/19 stained pages everything like I was almost like I discovered the Ark of the covenant or something.

30:00

And, and it said this phrase drainage precedes supply, drainage precedes supply.

And I'm like, huh, what do they mean by that?

30:16

That's the, that's the get stuff out first before supply stuff comes in.

And what I found is everybody's doing it the opposite way, including me, because I'm like, why am I, Why am I not getting better?

30:32

I don't understand.

I should be getting, but I'm oh, I forgot the waste management side 1st.

And so when I started to work my lymphatic system, just the stuff that I teach now, simple, easy.

Almost so simple.

People say Doc, that can't be that simple.

30:48

No way.

Yep, it is.

Basics always work.

Yes.

Nothing.

Nothing's more basic than that, right?

I mean, you know the basics of a kettlebell.

If you do the basics of the kettlebell, you're going to be a hashtag beast mode monster.

No problem.

31:04

Yeah, You just have to be consistent with it.

And here's the basement as.

Well, as what's advanced, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like it's all consistency.

Right.

The more you do it and then you tweak it, you'll get better.

You just got to show up.

And so when when you say, when you say that, when you say that drainage proceeds supply, it's kind of like implying that what happens is people become like physiological hoarders in that the house is filling up and filling up with stuff.

31:32

Yeah, more is coming in than is going out.

So it just keeps swelling and swelling up with stuff.

That's correct.

The exit route is not open.

Yeah, that's what happens.

You swell the container to dilute the pollution.

Wow, that's a lot of that walking around.

Yeah, yeah, it's called.

31:48

It's it's you'll get fatter obesity when you have stagnation because their body will use the fat cells to pull the toxins away from the internal organs so you don't die.

All right.

Say that one more time.

So the body will swell the container.

32:05

So it'll get puffiness.

You get edema, you get swollen, you hold on the fluid, but you'll also gain body fat.

Because if you can't get rid of toxins, your body's going to say, oh, wait, what am I going to do with all these toxins because Perry can't get rid of them?

I'm going to storm over here temporarily until Doctor Perry figures this stuff out.

32:21

And most of them are lipid soluble, so you put them into fat cells.

Yeah, it'll go into and then your fat cells and then your fat was just say no problem, man, I got you.

I'll I'll take it over for you.

And this is the, this is a, this a great thing to understand.

So you just get, you know, and that happened to me.

32:37

I was like getting like puffy and swollen.

I'm like, I'm working out all the time, man.

And I I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do.

I'm getting fatter.

And the reason being is, is because whenever you try to burn body fat and you, you, you burn calories, but you, you, you do what?

32:55

You create energy, you're, you're burning fuel.

And fuel always creates waste.

When you go, when you train and I break down muscles in the gym, you break them down on purpose so you can rebuild them and be a monster that also makes waste.

33:13

And then you have to ask yourself, what if you're already stuck full of a lot of waste and then you're going to burn that stuff and make more waste?

What's going to be the result?

You're going to feel worse.

You're going to get more inflammation because now your immune system detects more waste and it's going to turn on not to kill you.

33:33

I mean, not not to punish you, but to protect you because it's just doing its job.

And then that's the people who say, I can't lose weight.

I get worse.

And then they quit.

Yeah.

And they stopped training.

Or they make the worst mistake possible.

They double down on the exercise and they starve themselves, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.

33:53

And then you wonder why you're in the quicksand.

And what happened to me was this.

I just did some simple lymphatic stuff, and within two weeks, I felt better than I did in a year and a half.

And in 30 days I lost 30 lbs of swelling, inflammation, body fat and edema without doing anything different except wow, opening up my exit routes of waste management.

34:16

Because think about all those trillions of cells living in their own waste.

The cells are not going to function well.

Dirty.

Aquarium, right?

Dirty water in the aquarium and the fish suffer.

That's the best analogy you're ever going to come across with understanding.

34:32

Lymphatics is a fish tank.

That's why mine is called body aquarium.

If I have a moment, I'll tell you why.

May I explain that?

Please, oh please.

People just people get it and they go Oh my gosh, doc, that makes so much sense.

I understand that now.

Well, you're mostly fluid.

34:48

So if you look at a fish tank and you go in there and you have all different varieties of fish that's like you all different varieties of cells and you see the water crystal clear and the fish are thriving and there looks great and you feed the fish up in the corner you see this little filter putting out bubbles to circulate the fluid right.

35:07

And then everything looks great.

But what happens if the filter system that you don't see because it's hidden underneath the fish tank in the cabinet, because it's out of sight, out of mind, the filter system goes, the fish don't die right away.

What happens is that, you know, I think this water in here, man's going.

35:27

It starts to look murky.

Then what you see is like, dude, there's something growing on your fish tank and I'm like, yeah, that's the bad stuff.

That's the stuff that's time to take you out.

Parasites, Candida, bacteria, viruses, fungus, mold, all that stuff is taking hold in there.

35:44

And then what you see is the fish up against the glass going like this.

I'm like, what are they doing?

I said, dude, they're trying to breathe.

They got no oxygen in there.

So you have a low oxygen environment.

35:59

The pH of the fluid goes up, the fish start to look like they're getting disease, and you continue to dump food in it.

And the fish are pooping in their own waste, in the waste can't get out.

And guess what happens to the fish?

They slowly die.

You know what is slowly dying means That's chronic disease.

36:20

That's what that is.

But it doesn't happen overnight and that's why it gets missed.

And then the analogy that I go in and medicine and what they do is they no problem.

I'm just going to I'm going to drain all the water out.

I'm going to give you all brand new fish, man.

I'm going to give you a new body part.

36:35

I'll just cut the other one out or and then I'll clean the tank.

I'll give you this fancy fluid supplement you can put in there and it'll keep this tank looking really great.

And then you stay awesome.

Thank you very much.

And then two weeks later the same thing comes back and you're like, why does it come?

36:51

And I'm going to walk in the room and say, did anybody look underneath that?

Your filter system out of the cabinet?

No, but there you go.

You got to go there first because what I'm going to contend, it doesn't matter what you do in the tank at all until the filter system works and it just.

37:08

The drainage system has to be open basically.

Yeah, the fluid.

So you you have the stuff up there with the filter because the fluid has to move.

Stagnant fluid breeds disease like in nature.

If you look at a stagnant pool, animals, though, don't drink out of that because you don't die.

37:26

You need, you need moving water.

Movement water is like structured water.

If those stop, disease shows up like a like a diseased cesspool.

And what I contend is that's what's happening in the human body.

37:41

You have a stagnation of lymphatics, and if you have a stagnation of lymphatics, you have stagnated interstitial fluid.

Then you get a condition known as interstitial inflammatory stasis.

37:57

That is a big fancy word where inflammatory means inflammation, stasis means it doesn't move.

Interstitial is the fluid.

What does that mean?

You get sick, you get pain, and then all the stuff that's taking people out from all the diagnosis are from what?

38:17

Being stuck there, that your immune system is trapped in there and it's just caught in a vicious cycle like this.

And all you got to do is open the drain.

But here's the thing, you got more than one drain that's stuck.

You have a lot of drains that are stuck.

You can't just isolate your ankle drain, for instance.

38:34

You have to look at all of them when you do it.

And you don't just stagnate that fluid, you stagnate blood flow.

And I've been practicing for 30 years and my new thing is this.

I'm a fluid flow guy, but I look at fluid flow in the body first.

38:51

Nothing that I do, I don't do anything.

No faster release, no exercise program, no modality, no bio hack until I understand how is it impacting the fluid flow system when we use it?

What's the fluid flow system like before I use it?

39:07

And where are you using it in the fluid flow system to make sure that where you're using it, the route is open?

Because if you don't understand that everyone you're going to really, that's the people who say I'm doing everything and how many people listening to that can resonate with this.

39:26

I'm doing everything and I'm just not changing.

I'm not moving.

This could be the fundamental reason why it was for me.

And I find that for a lot of people as well.

But you don't have to be sick to work your lymphatic system.

39:42

That's going to also keep your circulation system working well and you'll recover and regenerate better.

So this is for the elite athletes, the people who exercise and work out everyday.

You need to do your lymphatic so you can stay competitive, you can recover faster.

39:58

Or I have a have a hypothesis.

They're like doc, but I'm really, really good now.

And I'm like, what if you could be even better?

How about that one?

What if I gave you like a secret weapon that takes 2 minutes?

And if you do it before you compete, people are going to say, Oh my God, what in the world are you doing to yourself?

40:14

You just smoked me.

Yeah.

And you go.

I did Harry's Big Six and I do lymphatic work.

Yeah.

Well, OK, so before we get into that part, because that's that sounds like opening the gates, which I'm sure by now everybody's like, how do I open these gates you're talking about?

I want to just give a little anecdote.

40:29

I said I had worked in manual therapy for a while.

I had this client who had been a Top Gun pilot and then a commercial jet pilot, a a really incredible athlete, very physical guy his whole life.

That's cool.

Skier and he had a skiing accident, broke a cervical vertebra and then became a quadriplegic.

40:52

Oh my.

And I was working with this guy and what I noticed over the years was because he was no longer moving and he was quite angry.

You know, he had a lot of anger about what had happened, lifestyle change, right?

So he's very angry and he's not moving.

41:08

And I watch him swell and swell and swell.

No, not body fat, but fluid.

And then I start noticing, you know, over time he's he's developing an odor.

His skin is becoming very waxy.

His ear wax is put, he's putting out all of the, you know, his body's excreting all of this kind of dirty stuff.

41:27

And then he starts growing skin tags and skin growths like crazy.

And it just always seemed to me that what was happening was he was basically sitting in dirty limp, and this stuff was just kind of bubbling out of his skin and everywhere else that it could.

41:44

As he became more and more toxic because these channels were closed, you know, he's putting stuff in, stuff's not coming out.

But more importantly, all that movement that had pumped his, pumped his lymph around before was gone.

And so now that fluid was, he was just sitting in fluid is what it looked like to me.

42:02

That sounds something like sort of right there.

Yeah.

That's a great clinical observation right there, because that's what's happening.

So you have multiple routes of your body evacuating waste.

Yeah, I just use the term muck because I like the term.

Muck.

But it just means waste of any type.

42:20

Like I kind of encompass it because I really don't care what waste you're talking about.

To me it's irrelevant.

They all got to go to the same place and so the the body has like compensations and fall back mechanisms.

If if so, if one system doesn't work so great, the other systems will say no problem.

42:39

I gotcha.

So you'll find another way to try to bleed out the toxins.

So many people get skin issues when they have stagnated lymphatics and vascular flow because the skin could be considered a detoxification organ if you think about it through sweat so you can absorb.

42:57

Plasma, right, I mean.

Yeah, it's just tough trying to get out that's that's trapped in the system and it's like I can't get out this way through the pee.

So I'm going to try to escape through your skin.

And you know you can absorb stuff through your skin, right?

That's why we rub stuff on it to go right in.

43:13

Well, it's a two way St. stuff goes out.

That's why the infrared saunas are so freaking awesome because you know that heats you up from inside out, so you bubble from inside out.

And then the other one is is that if you can't get rid of stuff, your body will try to coat it.

43:30

It'll make a very common symptom that people have is what I have is that a lot of mucus, a lot of phlegm, a lot of pus, a lot of, you know, post nasal drip, stuff like that.

Those are just mechanisms of trying to capture things.

43:46

So they'll say, OK, I can't pee it out.

Maybe Doctor Perry will snot it out of his nose or he'll swallow it and then I can poop it out.

Right.

Like it's, it's trying to find alternative.

That's how your body thinks.

It's like, all right, well, I'm going to try this one.

And you're, you're very prone to a lot of infections everywhere in the body because when you have trap lymphatics, your immune system kicks into hyperdrive like OverDrive.

44:13

And one of the reasons that he was like that was because movement moves lymphatics.

So if you don't move, you automatically become stagnant.

45:41

When you have a long plane ride, right, and you don't move or you sit too long, the legs swell up and you just feel like a big ball of yuck.

And so that won't naturally contribute to that.

And then the breathing will move lymphatics.

45:57

So you need to optimize your your thoracic diaphragm breathing.

And that because breathing just changes pressure.

It's like a giant fluid piston piston in your body.

So you inhale, you exhale, you inhale your exhale.

That sounds a lot like a plunger, right?

46:14

High pressure, low pressure, high pressure, low pressure.

So basically.

I know, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, breathing will.

Breathing unclogs your lymph toilets.

And here's a cool fact.

The largest lymphatic SAC known as your cisternicoilee, if you care what the name is, sits right pretty much in the center of the abdomen where the the diaphragm muscle attaches to your spine.

46:37

So when you breathe, it contracts down there near your spine and it pumps the SAC and out and out.

So imagine if you have dysfunctional breathing, which means that you breathe through your mouth, you don't breathe through your nose, you breathe through your neck and your, your chest and your shoulders and you don't, you breathe high and tight because your anxiety or you hate the world and you have a lot of anger.

46:58

You don't breathe from down low.

You shut your pump off and you're like, well, what's that going to do?

Well, you do 20,000 breaths a day approximate.

So imagine stacking that on for a couple of weeks or a couple of months or in a couple of years and the body can compensate for that because that's what it does then until it can't.

47:21

And when it can't compensate anymore, the only way that it can tell you that it needs help is it's going to send you something.

It's called pain.

So pain, pain is the body telling you I need you to change something in your life.

And you're like, change what?

Well, one, I'm going to tell you lymph, you start there, but usually it's some habit or behavior that you're not doing or something that you need to stop doing.

47:43

It's one of those things.

So it's time for a come to Jesus moment and journal stuff going on in your your life.

And then, but that's why you can feel so much better when you do the lymphatic stuff.

So even for someone like that, you, you'd have to start to begin to work this system for them because the other systems will become overloaded for sure.

48:06

And then that's what happens through people who end up with issues, you know, for like the liver or the spleen or the gut.

Here's another cool fact I said 1/3 of the lymph nodes in the body are in the neck.

The majority are you of your lymphatic system is in your gut and your digestive tract.

48:25

And that's oddly enough, the largest part of your immune system is your gut, 70 to 80%, somewhere in that ballpark if you read the research.

So then I'm thinking to myself, well, why in the world would the body put a lot of lymph nodes there if that's the largest part of your immune system?

48:43

Oh, because the lymphatic system is the largest part of your immune system.

So in my world, what that means is if you have a gut issue, you have a lymph issue.

If you have a lymph issue, you have a gut issue.

So.

Which is an immuno issue too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:59

So people have these neuro immune connections.

So I love it that people are talking about the nervous system, you know, and the brain and neuroplasticity.

But it's really hard to change neuroplasticity when you have a brain on fire from stagnated lymphatics and poor blood flow.

That journey is going to be really tough.

49:15

Yeah.

So it's both.

Here's the thing.

Neuro immune.

That means they both work together and they're both equally important.

I saw research the other day that's just coming out.

I mean, I guess it's probably pretty preliminary, but they're realizing now that cerebral spinal fluid actually drains into the lymphatic system, which wasn't understood before too.

49:38

So now it's like, OK, your brain and is sitting inside of a fluid SAC, you know, inside the meninges with your spinal cord.

And that that's draining into the lymphatic system as well, which is like obviously going to open up this.

Yeah, you know, the medical, the medical system is going to have to start looking at lymphatics even more now, particularly in neural neurobiology.

49:59

Yeah, but the way I'm really happy to see that because I've been telling people that for 15 years.

OK, all you have to do is open up a Physiology book and you'll you'll get it.

But they're finally, you know, seeing it.

But I want you to think about that for a moment, because that's true.

The cerebrospinal fluid is a fluid that surrounds your brain and your spinal cord.

50:17

And, you know, that needs to be cleaned too.

You don't want dirty cerebrospinal fluid.

Should be the cleanest, right?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, right.

Exactly.

And that's 99% water.

So if you're dehydrated already, think about how you're you're you're already toast if you die and your limp is 96% water.

50:38

So if you're dehydrated, I'm going to tell you right now, no lymphatic program in the world is going to work for you because you're dehydrated.

And that's on you though, like you got to start drinking.

But what happens is that the brain shrinks at night because they know it shrinks and it power washes itself.

50:55

And then then this is what they've been missing all the time because they're talking about the proteins, how the proteins form.

Then I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, well, where they going, if you're going to try to get rid of them, Did you, did you ask yourself that question?

Well, they're going to the cervical lymph nodes in the neck.

51:14

So that explained my symptoms because they removed my toilets and I already had stuck toilets.

And six years, seven years later, I got brain fog and neuro inflammation and early onset Alzheimer's symptoms because I'm swimming in toxic soup up here.

51:30

So it can't drain down.

And the guess where the cerebrospinal fluid will drain into, It's going to communicate with the lumbatic.

It's going to communicate with the veins.

And then guess where the cerebrospinal fluid comes from?

The vascular system.

51:46

So you're right back to the same loop.

It's the same loop all over the place.

And I saw the same thing they were talking about.

Yeah, we're thinking because the drain is blocked, stuff can't get out.

And I'm like, they speak in my language.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

52:02

You know, what do they, what does it say, waste out nutrients in to do that?

So that's why when you can open up these drains here, the fluid goes everywhere.

Now here's what I want them to catch on is that, you know, they, they're looking at the brain and that's awesome, but they only look at brains.

52:23

Do you have to look the lymph nodes in the neck communicate with the lymph nodes behind your knee and in your groin and in your abdomen.

So if you're blocked at those, that will influence the brain draining itself through the neck because the pressures push back on each other.

52:43

That's the principle of hydraulics and physics.

So that brings us back to what we talked about before is it's all one piece.

It's it's all together.

But the, but the arteries and the veins have contractile, strong contractile muscle in them, right.

53:03

So I think now we understand finally that the heart can't possibly pump all this fluid through the body, that it can coordinate the pumping action, but that the veins and arteries are contracting themselves and this is moving fluid through and and you can do that at rest.

53:20

So I can sit here and my blood still going to circulate, but my lymph doesn't have the benefit of this strong muscular contraction or centralized pump coordinator, right.

So one thing I, you know, I've, you often hear that idea that your soleus or your gastrocnemius, your calves are like the second heart because they help to pump fluid out of the lower body against gravity.

53:41

And traditionally I've seen for lymph, you know, you'll see a lot of stuff about trampoline or about skin brushing to try to sort of move lymph because it's not how it doesn't have a central coordinating mover, right?

So hence why the guy in the wheelchair I was talking about or the stagnant person whose, whose life is sedentary sits in so much lymph, right?

54:03

So, but if I'm hearing you correctly, it's you're saying something like, well, it's not just that you need the movement to move the lymph, the actual gateways need to be open to get that lymph, not just to move, but to get it to drain properly into the circulatory system.

Bingo, you got it right, because this is the proverbial question that everybody asked me to doc.

54:25

Well, I'm moving all the time.

I'm I'm I'm like a ninja breather man.

I've taken all the certifications and I jump on my trampoline all the time and you know, I'm I'm like a boss.

But they're still have stagnated lymphatic system or they say, shouldn't that be enough for my lumbatic system?

54:42

The operative word is it should be.

It's supposed to be, but it's not because your blockages, they're too many and they're too deep and those are no longer enough to move it.

It's just like the toilet analogy.

If you have a clogged toilet, you know, you ever tried to go in there and sometimes you'll just try to hit the flush button a few times and that is enough to pull it through.

55:03

But sometimes it gets closer and closer and you're like, oh, don't do another 1.

And in order to open it up, what do you have to get?

Plunger.

You got to get, you got to get a plunger.

And even then they're like, that doesn't work either.

What do you get next?

You snake it.

You got to go deep.

55:19

And that's what we do.

Like they're going to move the fluids, but it's like a sloshed pipe.

It's like all of them are trying to, they're all going at the same time.

So there, if you have blocks in there, they'll be banging up against each other and you'll make yourself worse.

It's like shaking up a snow globe and everything is floating around in there.

55:38

That's why you have to release the lymphatics in a specific order based on the law of hydraulics with physics.

So that's the proverbial question of, you know, why people don't get better just from I go from massages all the time and that's moving lymphat.

Here's The Dirty little secret.

55:54

Every single movement you do moves the lymphatics, so everything.

But when people are moving in like a massage, they're just starting to rub places to make you feel better without understanding.

If I rub here, where's fluid going next?

You need to understand that because if it what if I'm sending it to a place that doesn't accept the fluid flow?

56:14

Well, then it's going to send it somewhere else.

Then it's just going to backfill like this.

And the lymphatics has some small pumping to it.

It's such smooth muscle in the lymphatics.

It's not a great amount, but they're called lymphangiones.

Lymphangiones, they're called tiny hearts, many hearts.

56:34

And they're controlled by your sympathetic nervous system, just like your vascular structures are controlled by your sympathetic nervous system.

So there is some movement going on in there, but here's the thing that happens and this is where I tie the nervous system into the lymphatics.

When you get caught in sympathetic dominance, hyper vigilance, hyper arousal, hang out for dear life and don't die mode.

56:54

That's my affectionate term for chronic stress.

That's a human being today, right?

The sympathetic dominant constricts pipes makes them smaller, so and they're supposed to, but because I need to like fight something or run away from something.

57:14

But you're supposed to live through that and then rest.

But if you're constricted day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, you slowly begin to choke off the supply chain to the cells that are struggling.

57:30

And so you restrict basket or flow to the major structures inside the body, your organs, and then you'll restrict vein flow as well.

And you'll restrict, you'll contract the lymphatic valve so much that they'll stay contracted and they won't flow and they'll backflow on you.

57:52

'Cause they're all excited.

Yeah, because of sympathetic.

But here's the rub.

The sympathetic dominance will cause the stagnation, but the stagnation will cause inflammation, which can cause sympathetic dominance because the inflammation kicks into your nervous system that there is inflammation here.

58:16

And so you get caught in a positive feedback loop and medicine that's not positive feedback loop in this case is not a positive and it just feeds on each other.

So.

So what you have to do is you have to go in there and you have to put something into the system to snap it out of the loop.

58:34

So part of that is is learning to self regulate because part of that is getting out.

I mean, culturally we're all being pushed into sympathetic dominance constantly.

So each person needs tools to get into their parasympathetic nervous system and learn how to self regulate.

But part of what you're saying is that though, not only are those that they will get stuck in a loop where the physiological changes that happened from being in fight or flight will cause us to go into fight or flight.

59:02

So it just keeps looping until you break that cycle.

Yeah, because I have a lot of people that are trying to do your very thing, like you're trying to take yourself out of that hyperbitton state, you know, through a lot of the things that they're trying to do with the with the biohacking or, you know, with the brain retraining, you know, taking yourself out of the sympathetic and put it into the.

59:24

Parasitic nerve stimulation now too.

Yeah, right, exactly right.

And that's awesome.

But the vagus nerve also lives in the same fist tank is what I'm trying to tell people.

So here's my here's where I come in.

All those things are great, but people still get stuck like.

59:40

And my, what I'm trying to say is that one of the reasons you can't get out of that loop that you're in is because nobody told you to eliminate the stagnation and clear your lymphatics and increase your blood flow.

So that can also now take you out of your hyper vigilant state because you didn't know you had stagnation.

59:58

But you don't know what you don't know.

But I know you're stagnated.

And if I open that up and you mix it with what you're already doing, that unblocks the dam because when you have this trapped inflammation in the body.

You're going to have decreased blood flow into your vagus nerve, into your brain, into your brain stem and more importantly into your gut.

1:00:25

And so if you decrease blood flow, one of those areas, but you also decrease drainage, you have neuro inflammation.

And it's very difficult, if not physiologically impossible to change your physical state to try to think you way out of that because you're, you're in a, you're locked and dialed into just don't die in the next 3 seconds, man.

1:00:47

I don't care about anything else.

I don't care if you're happy.

I don't care if you don't feel pain.

Nothing matters to me is that you're not dead in the next 3 seconds.

That's it.

So survival Trump's everything.

What what people can do is, I say do some lymphatic stuff mixed in with what you're already doing, and then you'll likely see a change in what you're already doing.

1:01:12

You break that cycle with.

That, Yeah, it's really what it is, you know?

Yeah.

I'm going to make a reference here that I'm going to date myself.

And my wife goes.

You.

My wife goes.

You didn't say that, did you?

But I think it's hilarious.

You ever see the classic movie with Cher and Nicolas Cage?

1:01:27

Moonstruck.

I couldn't remember the plot very well, but yes.

I want I want you to I'm going to try to see you.

The meme on this or the clip is so hilarious because he Nicholas Cage falls is falling in love with her.

And he says I love you, Rebecca.

And she doesn't want to move forward.

1:01:44

And she just slaps him, like, really hard.

And she says, snap out of it, Right.

And that's what this is.

It's like a like an Anthony Robbins state change.

Yeah.

You know, because Anthony Robbins will tell you that.

Do something to change your state with the stimulation to snap out of it.

1:02:01

This is my dog all the time too, yeah.

So for those that are listening, I said that wasn't funny.

If you watch the clip and Moonstrong, you will say that's funny.

OK, so that's your assignment and watch the movie.

It's a great movie.

But that's all I'm trying to do is to actually change your neurological state and your immune system state.

1:02:22

Because the nervous system, if it's locked in, fight or flight, will keep your immune system locked in and on until it wears out and then you become immunocompromised.

But this is the part that people miss.

The immune system, if it's always kicked in because of stagnation, keeps you hyper vigilant and there's no like.

1:02:49

Hack.

For meditation, honestly, that's going to outrun a stagnated lymphatic system.

It's physiologically not going to do it.

Yeah, but I'm calming myself down.

I'm like, that's great, but you still have blocks that are too deep and they have to be opened up.

1:03:06

You just do what we do.

You don't have to worry about it.

How do we do it?

I want to know.

Yeah, well, honestly, you know what the first, the first big step towards changing your lumbatic system is?

The awareness that you have one, and the awareness that it's super duper Uber important and that it's not difficult to work.

1:03:26

I created this reset called the Big Six by understanding Physiology and also understanding human behavior and how people function when they're in fight or flight.

When you're in fight or flight, you're dialed in.

You have very little attention span and it's hard to commit to anything and it's hard to follow directions because you're just like this.

1:03:46

That that's a natural.

Yeah, it it really is.

It's just hard to because you're like all over the place, right?

The critter brain that they call it.

So I, I had to make it simple for you, almost so simple that it looks stupid.

Like when people see my Big Six, they always go talk.

1:04:04

Come on, man, seriously.

Are you just rubbing and you're slapping up?

That's ridiculous.

No, it's not.

It's really powerful.

It's Physiology.

And we've spent about an hour discussing why.

But I also had to make it something that you would actually attempt to do and stick with it.

1:04:22

Because if if I made it, the big 1290% of people wouldn't do it.

Too many because it's 12.

It's too many.

Doc, I got to go.

OK, You know what I mean?

So what I did was I just made this based on 2 principles actually. 3, The ease of doing it so you can make it to consistent. 2 Where the largest gathering of lymph node toilet clusters are located in the body is where the big six are, and they're located around the primary joints of your body, knees, hips, shoulders, neck, groin, hip for that reason.

1:05:01

And you're like, why would they cluster around the primary joints of the body?

Because you're supposed to move the primary joints of your body a lot.

But when we sit all the time, we flex and we choke off and we stagnate all six places all day long.

1:05:22

And the other reason that they're located in those places is because that's where you have primary routes of blood flow, big blood flow pipes.

And the big six is based on pressure hydrodynamics and physics.

That's why it always works, because you can't disobey physics.

1:05:41

And this is it.

This is really important.

This is the key to the work.

High pressure will flow to low pressure, high pressure will flow to low pressure.

That's just energy is going to flow to the path of least resistance.

So this is when you need to understand, well, what's the lowest pressure for lymph flow?

1:06:01

Where is it?

Because that's the drain, right?

That's where everything is trying to go is to the lowest pressure region.

That's the Cotter bone.

That's the Cotter bone into the subclavian bane sub below Clavian for clavicle, right side, left side.

1:06:22

That's the low, or put it this way, it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be the lowest pressure.

So if that drain is open, all the other areas can move towards it.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So now I'm just going to have you think if if the if the lowest pressure was at the Cotter bone and you start to work your way out, what parts of the body would therefore have the highest pressure?

1:06:47

The ones that are the furthest away from the lowest pressure.

So if I go up, where do I end?

The brain?

OK, So the pressure here is higher.

The pressure here is lower.

So the brain is trying to go towards what?

1:07:02

The Cotter bone.

Yeah.

For for clarity for the listener, just to make sure they understand the the place where the where the lymphatic system empties into the circulatory system is at the subclavian.

Veins.

That's why we're talking about that.

So that's the place where this whole green system that we see in the book, it all drains at the clavicles, which is pretty counter intuitive.

1:07:26

Yeah.

Well, it actually physiologically makes sense, but it kind of what we said when we said that the left drains end of veins.

So that's the vein drain.

But the the reason it's at the Cotter bone is because the thorax region has the lower the the most lowest negative pressure throughout the entire body of any zone.

1:07:49

And it's that way because of breathing.

So it's like a suction pump, every time you inhale you suck fluid into it.

Wow.

OK, OK.

As your diaphragm moves down and creates and it makes room for a long in the cabinet.

Yeah, yeah.

1:08:04

So this thorax region is the only place that has a negative pressure to it right now.

What happens before I build the six?

What happens if this pressure gets really tight?

Like, do you have a lot of tightness and tension at the chest, at the collarbone?

It's traps here and you're rounded forward and you're slumping.

1:08:21

You have tension.

Then you get so tight that you start to trap your drain and then this pressure now starts to go higher.

So that was not as low.

But what it does is it pushes all the other fluid back out to the other ends because you're blocked here because if it can't go down, it's going to go out.

1:08:42

So this here at the Cotter bone is spot number one of the big 6.

That's where you have.

You have to open the drain first.

Period.

No, always, always, always, always.

Left side, right side. 75% of the limp in the body will go to your left side, 25% will go to your right.

1:09:04

And people always ask me why.

I'm like, I don't know, take it up with the maker.

I have no clue.

It's just the way the pipes run.

OK, left side, right side.

But you always do both.

Now spot #2 is up on the side of the neck behind the angle of the jaw, below the lobe of the ear at cervical 1, cervical 2, and occiput those three.

1:09:27

That's where you have most of the motion in your neck.

Or you're supposed to, but not if you sit with your head forward-looking at TikTok for 10 hours.

You.

Choking off, but that's Atlas axis in the in the base of the skull where all those are.

That's your highest.

1:09:43

That's sort of the gyroscope of your head, in the sense that is.

That's where you get most of your rotation and flexion from, OK.

And that's where most people lose it because of the forehead carriage.

And that's the largest lymph node cluster in the neck, right there behind the angle of the jaw, which you.

1:09:58

Feel on your stick.

I mean, yeah, it's supposed.

To be supposed to get swollen, yeah.

But if that's blocked, your brain is going to be a mess for you.

Yeah.

And guess what?

Nerve goes down the neck from your skull right there.

Your vagus nerve, it sits right there.

1:10:16

And your vagus nerve also sits down at spot 1.

So for people who don't know, the vagus nerve sort of does, is the interface for the sympathetic parasympathetic nervous system, right?

Or something like that?

Can you explain a little bit about it?

It's because it also regulates digestion as well.

1:10:32

Is that true?

Yeah, you got it.

Yeah.

So it's a cranial nerve, which means it's going to be inside the head and what's called your brain stem.

And you have different parts of your brain stem where they have cranial nerves, 12 on the left, 12 on the right.

1:10:48

They're the ones that innervate stuff that's up in here in your face so you can hear, smell, taste, see, stuff like that.

The vagus nerve is the longest cranial nerve that you have.

It goes down to your organs.

It's the primary player of your parasympathetic nervous system that's supposed to take you out of fight or flight.

1:11:08

And it's the number one nerve to help you control inflammation in the body.

So it it monitors the inflammatory reflex to which I'm going to ask you next.

Well, what if your vagus nerve is surrounded by inflammation?

It's probably because your lymph is stagnated.

1:11:24

Well, then your vagus nerve is going to blow a circuit, right?

So you're back to the fish tank again because you'll inflamed the vagus nerve because the vagus nerve's going to go down to your gut, and that's where most of your lymph lives.

And that's going to be spot #4 when we get to it, of the big six.

1:11:41

So when you work my Big Six, you're also going to really help your vagus nerve, like a lot.

So you'll do spot 1 and spot #2 and you're really going to start to help your brain clean itself and you'll start to feel better, less tired, less fatigued, less lethargic, even less brain fog.

1:11:58

Like, this is the nuttiest thing in the world.

But I did the Big Six three times and I feel less foggy.

Yeah, yeah, you will.

So one and two, drain the head and neck.

Yep.

Now you have other spots above like you see people like doing limp on the face and stuff.

1:12:14

That's not, that's a, that's not part of the sex.

Because what I want you to understand is, is that what if I'm rubbing the eyes and I'm rubbing the cheek?

They have to pass one and they have to pass two and one.

Yeah.

So if you don't clear one and two, doesn't matter what you do to the face.

1:12:32

Yes, right.

Because those are just side streets, right.

We're we're opening up the major highways, yeah.

You got to open up the thing.

It's like Agps.

If you're blocked on there, you're going to try to go to the side roads type thing.

But you ultimately got to open up the big roads.

I call them node roads.

1:12:47

What I call them, OK, it's a good analogy, right?

And people learn through analogy.

So you open up 1 and 2, then you go to the next big cluster, which is the shoulder joint, pectoral, axillary, armpit region.

This is the one that people take a hit when especially for women with breast cancer.

1:13:06

Radiation removal, breast augmentation, breast removal, stuff like that.

You know, you compromise lymph nodes and you get scar tissue there.

And then they usually will end up with lymphedema down the arm because they damage the valves.

And then the the arm swells up a lot.

1:13:23

All right, but spot #3 you work.

And then three is trying to push towards one because one is lower, 3 is higher is trying to go to one.

That makes sense.

Now, why would one be tied all the time?

1:13:38

Well, just look at posture.

I mean, you're crushing #3 with the slumping of the posture.

And then we go to #4 #4 is the whole belly from the top of the AB to the navel there whole thing?

1:13:56

Yeah.

So everything between like the xiphoid process and the pubic bone?

All yeah, I mean probably to your navel, yeah, you can go to your pubic bone.

It'll be a lot more sensitive down in there.

But yeah, the navel kind of get, yeah, yeah, you'll get the go from bottom cyphoid process to the navel hit that region.

1:14:19

I want you to spend a little more time there just because it's a larger territory and that they're deeper nodes.

All right.

And I'll tell you how we stimulate them at the end.

I just want you to learn the order.

Where they are, yeah.

Yeah, and there you go.

There and then spot #5 is the crease of the groin.

1:14:35

Called your inguinal right there.

And those get backed up and then you'll get compromised.

Everything in your legs down both sides.

But you see a lot of older folks especially where you'll see their ankles and calves look three times as big as they should be, right?

1:14:51

That's all that fluid, just not getting out of there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know they could have something like congestive heart failure, stuff like that too, but that's still going to come down to a pressure issue and a vein issue either way.

But yeah, then you, you do 5 because remember 5 is going to try to make its way to 4, so 5 has to come up because the crease of the groin is trying to go towards spot one, right?

1:15:21

Ultimately, everything's got to get up to those clavicles.

Yeah, yeah.

And and we know, yeah, when you look at the lymphatics, most of the body is going to go to the left side.

So your abdomen here, most of it if all of us going to go to the left side and then so you do 5 and then the last one is behind the knee joint pop lineal, that's six and then that's going to that's that gets massacred because people always sit with their legs flexed and the knee flexed, right?

1:15:52

And then that's going to drain the cap in the foot.

So but so six behind the knees trying to get to 1.

But what I want you to understand, it can't get there unless it passes five and four first.

Right.

1:16:08

Yeah, it can't.

Bypass them, right?

Yeah.

Well, it's going to try to.

Yeah.

OK, it's going to try to.

Yeah.

But it's going to hit a wall and it's going to go back down or it's going to go out.

That's the only thing.

That's why you get a lot of swelling down in the abdomen or the pelvis.

1:16:27

And when you get that backflow there, you don't just backflow left you back flow, veins in particular and arteries.

And over time, those are the people who end up with stuff down below like I got prostate issues, I got ovary issues, I got uterus issues.

I'm like, well, maybe because you're starving all the flow there and you're stuck, You have to open it up.

1:16:48

But the key is you have to open it up in order.

You have to go from one out because you need to open up low to high.

That's why I tell people you never start in your feet, you never start in your hands.

You don't work your way up until you've at first opened up the six and you've worked your way down first.

1:17:08

Then you go because you're disobeying the laws of physics.

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Yeah, and it's not that something's going to go horribly wrong and your your body's going to explode.

What I'm going to do is say you're making that much more difficult for your body than you have to, because people say I just feel amazing when I go from brushing up the bottom.

1:17:28

I'm like, well, how about you do the six and then you brush up and you let me know the difference that you feel.

Then they're going to go, holy smokes, you weren't kidding, right?

Right.

So what we do order of?

Operations order of operations basically is what you're saying.

Yeah, it really is.

1:17:43

It comes down to everything.

It's sequencing, right?

If if you throw, it's like a phone number.

If you throw one number off and the phone number you don't reach the same number.

Like it's not the same thing.

So the order, I always tell people that what you do to the six, I really don't care.

1:18:00

Like whatever floats your boat.

The only non negotiable in my world is don't mess up the order because then it it won't work as well.

I just teach simple stuff.

So when you start at 1:00 and you work around, I just teach people to rub the areas and then lightly tap the areas.

1:18:21

And then I don't yeah, I don't care which way you rub which direction because I'm just trying to open pressure and how when you tap how fast, how you know how hard the answer is yes.

Just don't cause pain when you do it and realize that when it comes to Physiology, more isn't better.

1:18:44

Better is better.

You don't have to do a lot how you say 10 rubs, 10 taps, OK.

So you can do all six in just a couple of minutes.

I mean, it's not a long.

Yeah, even.

And then I even say you can.

1:19:00

You don't have to rub burst and tap burst.

You can tap, burst and then rub.

And then people, this one, people say, yeah, doc, but why'd you choose 10?

AM I?

Because I didn't want to choose 15 and I didn't want to give you 5 because it's the sweet spot in the middle.

1:19:15

Because if I gave you a 20, you know, people going to say 20.

Holy smokes, that's a lot.

So then I give you 10 and then you start to do 10 on a consistent basis.

Then you say, this is great.

And then you keep doing it and you, you can do whatever you want here.

1:19:32

I like to use a vibrating massage ball, a small little ball that vibrates.

OK good, I was going to ask if my theragun would work or.

Something Theraguns can They're a little aggressive.

Little aggressive.

Well, they are for, let me put a caveat on that.

They are for the people that I see, because I see people who have very sensitive nervous systems.

1:19:52

They have a lot of inflammation, They're oversensitive to things.

And even though the Theragun can feel good, it's too much stimulation for their system.

Yep.

So I would suggest not if if you're like an elite athlete and you know, you feel really good, I don't have a problem with that.

1:20:10

Just realize that you don't have to do it for a long period of time and you don't have to put it on Mach 50.

Just do like speed one.

That's it, right?

It's pretty.

Aggressive on a theragun as it.

Is especially if you get a hyperbolt man.

I mean it's like a jackhammer, that thing.

1:20:26

It's really good because vibration decreases pain and vibration vibrates stuff and increases circulation.

So it's really simple, but the key is the magic is the sequence.

So you would do spot one, then you move up to spot 2, left side, right side.

1:20:47

Just be careful there.

Don't put a gun up there, please.

That, that, that, that, that.

And if you put the ball there, just be gentle.

Then you do spot #3 spot #4 with the rubs in the slaps, kind of double hands, then rub 10 times, slap 10 times, decrease the grind.

1:21:04

Then you do the same thing for the back of the knee.

So you open up your pipes.

You're like a big giant slosh pipe, right?

Plus pipe pipe full of fluid.

You just shake around.

Great training tool, by the way.

And then I want to shake up the snow globe.

1:21:20

Then what do you do?

You just do rebounding and you use these built in rebounders called calf muscles and you use those.

You don't need to buy a, you know, a $600.00 rebounder.

You can if you want to, but just start off there.

1:21:36

Go easy with that, OK, when you do that, because a lot of people, you don't have to jump off the ground and a lot of people are not really good at absorbing impact through the ankles and knees and the hips, especially if you're older.

So it's almost like if you watch some of these Tai chi chi gong things, they show people just lightly just bounce a little bit and then, you know, just do what they call noodle arms.

1:22:00

Just let them swing around and twist your body and you'll breathe in and out through your nose.

Keep your mouth closed, sing a little bit, hum a little bit, chant a little bit after you do the six for and people say, how long do you jump for that long?

1:22:16

30 seconds to a minute.

And if you do that every single day of your life, you'll notice a profound difference for that a few days, but definitely within a month.

And you know, then, then this is the next question I usually get.

When should I do it?

Like what time of day?

1:22:32

Clinically, I found that it doesn't really matter.

It's whenever you'll do it in your schedule is the most important one.

But I do find the morning time is really high, high payback because it's going to get you alive and it's going to get you awakened up.

But you have a significant period of time at night where you're not moving.

1:22:51

And one of the signs of lymphatic stagnation is people who feel very sluggish and tired or they have body stiffness in the morning.

That's the stagnation that happens and.

With regard to the bouncing, a quick question about that.

1:23:06

Is it true that the lymphatic vessels are filled with one way valves?

And is it that when I bounce, I move the fluid up and it goes up but it can't come back down because that one way valve shuts behind it, right?

So I'm just trying to just tease the fluid up, up, up, up, working it towards my collarbones, which is why I don't need extreme jumping.

1:23:28

It's just even a little bit is enough to keep moving it up that valve system.

Yes, that's correct.

Yeah.

So they're designed to trap that.

So when the valves don't work, everything backflows.

That's called lymphedema.

OK.

So and you back or what happens is sympathetic dominance.

1:23:46

You, you trap them and stuff can't move.

It's just trapped.

Now what's the I want to paint two different scenarios for you because people always say, Doc, do you like vibration plates?

I love them.

Do you like rebounders?

I love them.

I just do big six first.

1:24:02

So imagine you just jumped up and down for a minute without doing the big six.

You're just moving fluid, which is great.

It was trying to move up, but it's time to move through the six, right?

1:24:19

What if you're 6 have a compromise because they're just a lot of tightness or tension and stiffness in those regions, and you're like, yeah, but I feel better when I jump up and down.

Awesome.

And you are moving some stuff.

But what if you want to go like Fast and Furious, put some nitric oxide in your tank, then you do the big six.

1:24:40

Then you do the minute of a jump and you will feel a difference.

You will physiologically feel a difference because you just optimized the physics and Physiology and hydraulics of pressure of how fluids move in the body and it's magic, honestly, when you can do that.

1:24:59

I have to tell you my friend, I've been in healthcare for 30 years.

I've suffered as a human being through a lot of stuff.

Come out of the other side after I felt like I'm barely hanging on.

So I know what it feels like and there's, there's so much stuff out there to look at and choose from that it's, it's mind blowing and it, you're trying to tame your stress, but you're getting stressed by looking at how many ways you can decrease stress, right?

1:25:28

I see it all.

I see it all the time.

And I'm all about trying to take something really complex and making it down to the basics and fundamentals.

And this is what I think it is at this moment of my life.

It may change and it's this, it comes down to what US what a single cell needs to survive.

1:25:47

Because if I can figure out what a single cell needs, I can figure out what the other trillion need because they're all going to behave very similar.

They just have different names and properties.

And I saw this by looking at a Physiology because it's just so simple.

You got to make sure that the fluids that the cells live in are not toxic, not dirty.

1:26:07

They got to be cleaned.

They got to be a movement.

You need to make sure that you can get blood flow to the cell and you need to make sure that you can get the waste away from the cell after the cell used all the nutrients you sent to it through the blood flow, right?

1:26:27

Step one, blood flow gets there.

Step 2, cells use it.

Step three, cells poop.

I got to get rid of the waste.

If that mechanism doesn't work, that's that's when you start to get sick.

You get the chronic inflammation and people say how can it be that simple?

1:26:49

Because it is, that's why.

And when you give, you ever heard the phrase that Vinos how to heal a cell?

Because it does, but it can only do it if you give it the necessary supplies to do so.

Yeah.

I got to give it what it needs and just because you eat nutrients and I take supplements and I do breathing and stuff like that, and that's all the stuff that it needs.

1:27:16

Yes, but then you have to look at the transport mechanism.

How's that able to do it?

Because there's no supplement.

There's no supplement in the world that will outrun A stagnated lymphatic system.

That's not happening.

I see it all the time, man.

I got people coming in there with gut issues who take 2530 supplements.

1:27:35

They've had all the tests done and they're still struggling and I'm psyched because all your supplements become waste and then they're doing blood tests and your cells don't live in blood and you're not going to find a lymph issue in your blood.

1:27:53

That's the interstitial fluid.

Right.

Yeah, right.

And then people say how you going to find if you have a lymph, how do you know you have a lymphatic system issue?

Well, my tongue in cheek answer, but I'm not really kidding, is because you have one.

Yeah, I'm serious, right?

1:28:14

Yeah.

It's just, no, it's just, it's just the because just going through life right now is not enough to work the system.

You have to.

You have to put some direct targeted focus, work on the system just like you would.

1:28:29

You're breathing, you know, you just mix the limp in with it.

Could I see you do the rubbing and tapping technique maybe on your neck or your collarbone or something?

So I can sort of see that one more time, make sure I understand it fully.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

1:28:45

So I people always ask which Cotter bone do you start with?

It really doesn't clinically matter.

You just have to match them.

You have to do 1.

I like to do one at a time on everything.

You see some people showing 2 at a time.

I like one at a time because it gives you like a better sense of feedback and awareness when you can compare one side to the other side.

1:29:06

But you know, if you want to do 2 at a time, that's fine.

So when I, when I rub the Cotter bone region, I need to make sure I'm on it, I'm below it and I'm above it.

So I like to use the whole hand, fingers and palm and it's placed over the Cotter bone and I just simply rub now.

1:29:24

I like circular patterns a lot because it it moves the fast and the tissue in different directions, but you can really rub up and down, side to side, left and right.

You know when I teach, you can see me doing it here and I'm not pressing really hard, but it's not like super duper light either.

1:29:45

OK, you are trying to mechanically get the tissues to move.

Bit yeah, you you need to get some pressure in there to move it.

All right.

Yeah, You see some techniques that are super duper really light and those can be, those can be helpful, but they're for a certain type of person that already has a major compromise and lymphatics.

1:30:07

You're talking about like what's classically lymphatic dream massage.

Yeah, because you know, when they say you can't, don't rub too hard, you're going to shut down the valves.

And I must say, well, anybody who wears a backpack and a purse, they would be dead already.

That's not.

True people who do jiu jitsu would be dead.

1:30:22

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

OK, So what you do is just don't cause pain because pain increases tension.

I I jokingly say you can draw hieroglyphics and make balloon shaped animals here.

It's.

Up to you.

And then you just tap like this.

1:30:39

Now, some people don't feel comfortable with tapping, especially if you have a lot of inflammation, then that's OK.

You just do a little bit of extra rubs.

If you do the vibration ball, make sure you put it underneath the collarbone for sure, right up underneath the Cotter bone.

That'll help relax the lungs and open that up.

1:30:57

Then you can go above the Cotter bone like on the trap.

I only do about 10 seconds on the ball and Speed 1, Speed 2 Max.

Do not go 4.

It's too much.

All right.

And then you would do the same thing on the other side and try to keep your mouth closed and breathe in and out through your nose because I don't want you to be a mouth breather because mouth breathing will destroy your vascular system and your lymphatic system.

1:31:25

OK.

Your, your mouth is for eating and talking and drinking.

It's not for breathing.

OK.

And then I'll go to spot #2 spot #2 is behind the angle of the jaw.

And yeah, you'll see some people show the two techniques.

I, I don't really like that one because I put more pressure and your internal carotid arteries sit right here and I don't want you to put too much pressure because you'll go lights out, you'll go timber.

1:31:52

So you do the same thing here.

Rubbing up and down works really, really nice.

See the up and down on this was really, really nice because in that reason, the vascular structures, the internal carotid and the internal jugular vein that's draining the brain, they get a lot of fascial stiffness here.

1:32:11

And if you go up and down like that, you can help that fascial shearing and you'll get a lot of good stuff for the nerves there.

Like that's all.

This is one of the clinically the most powerful spots to work on the body.

And then you do light tapping, very light.

And then if you use do the other side and then do your light tapping and you apply the same principles everywhere else, I'll probably tap a little harder on the pack and the abdomen, groin and knees just because they're larger structures and the limp clusters are deeper in there.

1:32:49

But opening one and two you have to do first.

Like in the in the auxiliary.

Are you in the armpit?

Or yeah, so, so you got a lot of regions here, right.

So this cluster of lymph really sits around this PEC deep inside the armpit, right?

1:33:08

And kind of underneath the cauda bone a little bit, right?

So here's the best thing.

When you get spot one, you're already starting to help. 3 So I actually, I don't go on the shoulder.

It's on the PEC right here and a little bit underneath the pack inside.

1:33:27

So it just imagine laying your whole hand over your pack and kind of in your armpit here.

Yeah.

And then when you slap that region, yet you don't want to, you don't brown your shoulder forward.

You just kind of open your arm up and back and you just hit and tap.

1:33:44

So I'm kind of getting the pack and a little bit in my armpit at the same time, right?

And now that you know where they are, you can also just gently massage your PEC muscle and you'll probably find some nice fun pectoral trigger points in there.

1:34:02

While you're at it.

Yeah, that you can help release those things up as well.

And then when you do the belly, you have a big region there, so the hands can go separate or together, you know, circles, spirals.

And then I like to do a lot of tapping there.

1:34:18

Like there's something that they teach in Eastern medicine called belly bangs.

And they use that to stimulate your vagus nerve because when you your vagus nerve goes to your gut and when you hit your belly, you stimulate the vagus nerve, but you also help drain your lymphatics.

1:34:39

And they do 50 bangs 12345678910 like that.

OK, so you work up to 50 of those things.

You don't have to, You don't have to gut punch yourself.

Just go easy.

Don't hold your breath.

And then you do the same thing with a grind.

1:34:55

Just.

I'm going to give you a caveat.

Just watch your aim when you're around the groin, OK?

Because that's a mistake.

You'll learn once, yeah.

Wow, I I really like, for me, it's really important that after, you know, we spent like an hour really digging in on the Physiology, but it's so good to have a practical thing to do at the end of all of that.

1:35:20

So I really appreciate that it's such a simple method.

It seems like it'll be really easy for me to integrate.

So I'm pretty excited about that.

It also seems like it'll be a good, you know, because you were saying before, you know, people are becoming aware of the infrared sauna or, you know, rebounding or all these other things.

1:35:40

But it seems like this is the kind of master key to make sure all those are actually really doing their job, you know, functioning together.

Yeah, I believe so.

It certainly was for me.

I wouldn't be here, I don't think I would be alive if I didn't find this link of lymphatics because I tried everything else.

1:35:58

Like it's like the missing key for me.

And then when I found it and I studied it, I'm like, well, physiologically it makes complete sense when you start to study it.

It's just been, it's the Cinderella system, I call it.

People just haven't been looking at it, but it's going to grow exponentially now because people are catching on to what I realized when I got sick.

1:36:22

And you know, you mentioned before that, like I was at a state where, you know, there's nobody's coming to rescue you.

They they didn't for me, but that's why I and I do what I do.

And I love the invitations to come on shows like yours.

And I teach all these classes because I can be the rescue for someone that I never had.

1:36:41

And that's what I want so that they can see.

Oh, wow.

You know, I never knew that.

The realization first.

And then where do I start?

What do I do?

Yeah, but it can.

It can profoundly change your life for sure.

1:36:58

It's going to play a role in everything.

When it comes to a chronic pain and chronic disease, I'm not sure to what extent honestly, but it's something that you need to check out and check the box on working to see what kind of shift it does make.

1:37:14

Because here's what I do know, if if you don't check it and it is an issue, you won't be beyond a certain point because the, the body just physiologically can't accomplish the demands that you're asking it to do.

1:37:32

And then the big six, it's easy to, it's easy to do, it's fun to do, it's very effective.

And it, you'll see it anywhere, like you can find it on YouTube or it's gone crazy on TikTok and Instagram and all that stuff because people share it, but people do it and then they all have the same reaction.

1:37:53

That's nuts.

That's crazy.

Like, I can't believe what a difference that made.

That's how, you know, like I could tell you all day long about how great it is, but you just got to do it right.

I want to ask you one more question before we finish up and and then we'll kind of go through where people can find your work.

1:38:11

But when you zoom out and you look big picture at all of this, we the way to take care of ourselves was always so simple for so many cultures.

And we're in this situation now where people don't even like really know what to do day-to-day with their own bodies.

1:38:29

And, and we look at our health systems and most of our systems that they're almost doing the opposite of what they're meant to do.

You know, so it's like our health care systems promote disease, right?

Our FDA promotes things that are like toxic to your body.

1:38:44

It's like everything's kind of gone backwards.

It's not doing what it's supposed to do.

People are more confused than ever.

You know, our intelligence seems to be decreasing.

Our fertility is decreasing.

When you zoom out and you look at this whole big picture and you ask yourself like, why does the world need to know these basic, simple things that everybody should just know?

1:39:06

Like how do you think we got here?

Do you, do you see this as like a something that was driven by basic like human ignorance and greed?

Or do you see this as being like a bigger picture, more nefarious situation?

The reason that we're here, like the reason that people like you and I need to do this kind of work is what's going on here on planet Earth.

1:39:27

And why are people in such a state of like dark ages, ignorance about basic good living?

That's a really great question.

Yeah.

And I think the the answer to your question is it's a little bit of both.

So when we see that, yeah, they're not doing what they're meant to do, well, I think they're doing exactly what they're meaning to do.

1:39:48

So, you know, what is that all that is?

You know, if you just keep people sick, you got a nice business here, right?

And you look in history of anybody who tries to change the system, they take you out like, you know, you're usually to try to attack the attack your character or your integrity, things like that.

1:40:08

And then just dismiss you.

So it's a hard system to change.

I just call it the movie.

That was a not a movie.

It was a documentary.

It's The Matrix.

Yeah.

Like you're in the Matrix.

And the way you get out of the Matrix is first realizing that, holy cow, I'm in the Matrix.

1:40:24

It's like a fish that's in water.

Who goes what's water?

I don't know what water is.

But I think that human beings, we have a gift that makes us unique as human being is, is to be able to think, right?

But we overthink, we overcomplicate and we think because of something seems complex or complicated that the answer has to be complex.

1:40:49

And one of my favorite people of all time, his name is Dan John.

He said when something goes wrong, simplify.

Like you got to go back to basics.

And we've actually lost touch with what makes us human beings at our essence, because the machine is feeding that too, right?

1:41:07

I mean, they know your dopamine switch like crazy and they got you zooming in there.

They know what they're doing.

And we're following along because that's what humans do.

Like when you understand the master switch, they got you.

But how do you take yourself out of the Matrix?

1:41:22

Well, you go back to the simple things.

And this is this is what is kind of frustrating because people don't think that the answer could be that simple.

They're doing a lot of complex.

The $1000 bio hacks, 20 of them a day.

1:41:38

And they're they're overwhelming a system that's already overwhelmed when they need to go back to stuff that you see all the time.

You need to spend time with your dog.

You need to go out in the sun.

You need to put your foot on the earth.

You need to go in water and listen to water.

1:41:55

Go in nature, hug a tree, listen to a bird, right, sing or dance or touch, spend time with something called an actual a human being, you know, and talk to them and Co regulate and and resonate.

1:42:14

And then, you know, we've just fallen away from that and you realize that the answer always comes down to those basics, right.

But but if you think about that too from a monetary and it's hard to monetize going out and walking on the grass, right?

1:42:32

And if you just start to trickle, those ain't things in, you can make a you can notice a profound shit.

So and and something like I had AI went on an African safari once where it was a Wellness observational safari, you know, so you don't go to hunt to kill.

1:42:50

You go to learn how to track and find and observe with awe and wonder.

And what I felt so connected to myself.

It took about 3 days to get there.

They have a saying that Aborigines have a saying that it takes three days to lose your who you brought with you when you're there to let it go.

1:43:13

And I felt so connected to myself, connected to the earth, connected to the animals.

And you could see you becoming a part of it and the, the symbiosis of how that's all working together.

And then the other people around me though, like you had to depend on each other.

1:43:29

It was a tribe, it was a community.

And that was that had a lot of meaning for me.

And we, we ended it by the last day gathering around a fire in the dark in a circle.

And it wrote in that he said This is why this is so healing because that's primal.

1:43:51

Your nervous system remembers that from 100,000 years ago.

And you're by the fire, You're looking at a fire.

And research shows how much actual fire heals your nervous system from the sounds and to the certain frame of light.

And you're telling stories and you're singing and dancing and you're with other people.

1:44:13

Like if you could just do that on a consistent basis, how much magic would that be?

And all I'm going to add for you on this one is just do your big 6 by the fire.

That's just throw that one in there and then you're good to go.

1:44:30

You know, I mean, I hope that answers your question because I think it's honestly a little bit of both.

No, it's a beautiful answer.

I really appreciate it.

I think, I think it, it's easy to forget, get to talk about these things sometimes and they're the most important things, right?

1:44:45

So I really appreciate you sharing that.

Where do people go to find all your stuff?

Really simple.

I'm not hard.

If I'm out about simplicity, man.

That's it.

You just type in three words anywhere, stop chasing pain and I'm going to show up somewhere.

1:45:02

I've been cranking out stuff for 30 years.

I've had my own podcast for 17 years.

OK, yeah, I had a podcast and people like, what the hell is it?

What's a podcast?

Yeah, that was before it was called that right?

Yeah, I did them from my Bluetooth phone on freeconferencecall.com.

1:45:20

That's how I did it.

You know, I know the music of freeconferencecall.com very well, by the way.

There you go.

That's awesome.

They're still going.

I mean, that's amazing.

But yeah, that's that's another testament to just go just start, just pull the trigger, you know, just just begin.

Everybody, when you're listening, you don't have to be perfect.

1:45:36

You just got to start and you'll find me from there on my website and I'm on every social media platform that you got and then that's how you find me.

Easy peasy.

And you know, Big Six, you type that in there, I'll pop up too.

1:45:52

Wonderful.

Doctor Perry Nicholson, it's been a true pleasure talking with you today.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, you got it, brother.

It was a lot of fun.

Had a great time.

Thank you.