Transcript: UFO's or Sky Hauntings? — Nathaniel Gillis #006

0:00

Here's Alexander, the greatest diary.

He's like I was wanting to invade a city but the walls were too large and out of nowhere here comes a flying shield that zaps it with a but with light it explodes the wall and they go in and conquer.

I saw Fox News the other day talking about four types of aliens, Grays, Nordics, Reptilians and Insectilans and you're like, OK, Overton windows moved substantially here.

0:26

We have UFOs in homes and we have hauntings in the sky.

Then what are we studying, right?

What are we even doing?

If there's some kind of parasite on our species, I would like to know how to eliminate that or kill that, or love it out of existence or whatever I need to do and whatever The thing is that is the weapon against it.

0:45

I think that we're evolving to a place where we're figuring out some things to push the beast back in the darkness with consciousness, belief.

Belief's a big thing.

My guest today is Nathaniel Gillis.

Nathaniel is a religious demonologist and the author of A Moment called Man and the Skin that Crawls.

1:06

After living in a haunted house, Nathaniel spent 20 years researching what it was he encountered.

He's the founder of preternatural epiphenomenal philosophy.

Nathaniel has sought to redefine the nature of haunting phenomena, ghosts, and high strangeness.

1:21

Nathaniel, welcome to the show.

Thank you brother.

It's always good to be on with you and I'm just glad to be back again.

Thank you for inviting me.

And I'm really happy to have you here.

And a lot's happened since we last spoke, including, you know, the initiation of so-called government disclosure.

1:38

And it's got a lot of interesting conversations happening in the country right now.

And I just thought, wow, who better to talk to about this than you?

I just want to let the audience know to, to get started.

No, I started talking to you because you brought a really different perspective than anything else I was hearing on not just the UFO phenomena, but all manner of high strangeness, as you call it.

2:02

I'll tell you what it did.

It came at a cost.

I I grew up in the phenomenon itself in a paranormal environment, and I was forced to ask questions about what's going on.

And there's only one thing that I'm confident of in my research, and that is that we will not get disclosure on what the phenomenon is about.

2:24

And from from ufology.

Ufology is riddled with people who do not know folklore, they don't know mythology.

It's I, I have friends that are ufologists, so I'm not trying to frown on them or anything like that.

My point though, is my research now is centered around the occupants of the craft.

2:44

I am not an automobile enthusiast.

I want to know honestly, because here's the thing, you know, we have people that though they'll speculate everything.

And I, I love doing that.

By the way, I'm a theorist myself.

But I think it it's high time that if people are going out to theorize about the phenomenon, I would expect them to having set with it, right?

3:06

Not just read a book or two, but actually go and do in the, you know, in home investigations and field work.

And and then once they've actually experienced this thing, they'll come to different conclusions.

But that's where I'm at right now.

I think that that the field is changing.

3:23

We're asking better questions and perhaps that's enough.

Maybe, I don't know.

One thing that I've noticed is a shift in the conversation.

At least, you know, from the outside where I see less and less of the like they're from Beta Centura and they travelled light years to be here.

3:39

It seems like people are landing around this kind of idea of interdimensional beings or beings that are actually maybe ultra terrestrial.

I'm hearing that term a lot more because the conversation also, I just want to point out, I mean, it's, you know, I saw Fox News the other day talking about four types of aliens.

3:57

Yeah.

Grays, Nordics, reptilians and Insectilans and you're like, OK, Overton windows moved substantially here.

Zooming out of that, like I want to come back to this idea of like, where where are these beings or entities or whatever this phenomena is, where is it coming from?

4:13

But first, I guess what's going on with this closure?

You know, I was quite surprised with what came out on the Epstein files.

Now, that came out because of legal reason, right?

Well, this is the executive order.

I did not expect some of that stuff to make the light of day.

But what's coming out here so far has been pretty milk toast.

4:31

I'm not real impressed with what I've seen, but they keep promising more.

So what's happening do you think?

I, I just think that entire field of Ufology is they're asking the wrong questions.

James Lakatsky is one of my favorite researchers.

4:46

He's the pretty much the biggest connection we have to the government and their, their team of researchers.

He wrote a book called Future Visions, and in it he details his investigation into the phenomenon, specifically how it originated in his work.

5:02

And he's like, you know, I was a contract out to, to research UF OS UA PS And he's like, and I thought that I was just investigating that field.

He's like, so I'm gung ho, right?

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm got my scientific method available, right?

5:18

I got all my instruments and we're out there researching craft in the sky.

He's like, but then we actually sat down with with witnesses of UA PS and we realized that we weren't studying UFOs at all because people were witnessing these craft in the sky and then going home to malevolent hauntings, right?

5:40

And in shadow figures and just apparitions that were haunting them.

And it all stemmed from them witnessing a craft in the sky.

And so James Lakatsky said, well, we have a significant issue because first of all, I'm not researching what I thought I was.

5:59

I'm researching something else that exists underneath the umbrella of the paranormal.

It's not a class in and of itself, right?

It's not mutually exclusive.

No, it's something entirely different, and that's where I'm at now.

The problem is, again, that if, if disclosure's going to come from ufologists, we've missed the plot entirely.

6:20

Here's why.

Because we have UFOs in homes and we have hauntings in the sky, then what are we studying, right?

What are we even doing?

And so that's what I'm fed up with it.

It's like, well, what?

Why am I even?

6:37

By the way, I'm not invited to conferences.

But if I were, I'd be like, well, well, why am I even here?

Because we're not studying automobiles.

We're studying phenomenology.

We're studying the way that the intelligence interacts with our perception.

6:54

And so it's when it's when I see that, yeah, we've had UFOs and hunting, huntings and houses.

Jack Hernandez, a San Pedro haunting of Doctor Barry Tams.

Research lights.

All right, This will blow your mind.

Lights were in the house, but and they're floating around and they're projecting physiological constructs.

7:16

The only difference between that and the UFO is altitude.

Yeah.

And guess what?

Here's the issue I'm having.

If that is up there, what else are they projecting in our atmosphere that we are considering solid and real?

7:37

That's why Lakatsky said in his investigation.

I have to quote right in front of me.

He's talking to these, these witnesses.

He's like, OK, was the craft metallic or was it solid looking?

In other words, there is a marked distinction.

Not everything that is solid looking is solid.

7:57

It appears as such.

And so I'm afraid that if Ufology is going to carry the mantle of disclosure, we've missed the plot entirely because we're we're missing it in the phenomenology.

Let's have a seat.

8:12

Let's talk about what's actually going on.

Because if it's just UFOs, it's not.

And if all we're studying UFOs, we've missed the moment entirely.

And we're going to, we're going to miss it so much so that we're going to reframe the phenomenon in a way that's not accurate to the actual data.

8:31

And that's why I'm utterly frustrated.

So for the listener who's not, you know, initiated in this way of thinking, you're suggesting that what we're seeing in the skies are less, like you said, less, you know, racy sports cars and more projections or more of a haunting than a physical phenomenon.

8:53

And that it's interrelated with things that it shouldn't be if it was what we're told it is.

In other words, if it was, you know, beings coming from other planets, why would it be wrapped up with hauntings and apparitions and occultic kind of things?

Right.

9:08

Because absolutely, that's exactly what I'm alleging here.

And the issue, it arises when you look at hauntings, when Lakatsuki said, OK, these people are being haunted.

That's the entire field of research that ufologists are not doing right.

9:24

They think, OK, we're carrying the cross of disclosure, and the Messiah complex arises to where they're trying to redefine the phenomenon.

It's like, no, no, hold on a minute, Let's go into hauntings.

We have to actually go into that field.

Look at the case studies.

9:40

And the case studies are alarming.

I mean, look at the San Pedro haunting with Doctor Barry Teff.

He collected human blood plasma pouring from the cupboards.

My friend.

Wow.

So again, it's not at all what I thought we were researching.

9:55

I was like, you know, kind of like the catsky, you know, this is you followers and all that.

Not at all friend.

It's it's something completely different.

And I'm to the point now, like I said before, where we have UFOs and Holmes and hauntings in the sky.

In the 1600's, the Battle of Edge Hill took place.

10:13

There were thousands that that, you know, lost their lives in that that battle. 30 like 2530 years later, witnesses in England watch the sky as it was haunted.

This blew my mind by the way, where they're watching like apparitions go to war.

10:34

Oh wow.

It's documented as much as it could have been at the time.

And one of the witness witnesses go to, goes to the priest and the priest comes around, he goes, I don't know what I'm watching, watching what's going on here.

So then they go to the mayor, they go to the governor.

The governor comes out with other soldiers who fought in the war, and they're watching as these apparitions are just going to, that's a haunting in the sky.

11:00

So what I'm realizing is that that's kind of backwards, right?

It should be UFOs in the sky and, you know, hauntings in the houses.

No, we've got UFOs in homes and hauntings in the sky.

So what are we really researching then?

Yeah.

That's wild.

11:16

There's this, let's say, I don't know what to call it, like the, the Joe Rogan kind of Jesse Michaels UFO industrial complex or whatever.

This, this kind of idea of like these benevolent beings are going to come here and raise our consciousness and save us and give us technology and all of that.

11:34

And maybe on the other end, you have kind of like ideas, like Jack Valley's ideas of like, hey, these might be very deceptive beings and it seems like people are actually really harmed by them.

Just putting that out there is like the spectrum that the public is seeing right now because the public's trying to sort through this, obviously very slowly.

11:52

And, and some people are very aware of it.

Some people are just becoming aware of it.

But again, Fox News is talking about Insectowins or whatever.

So people are going to be sorting through this, right?

And so one idea is their saviours.

One idea is they're deceptive.

And then you have the constant, you know, the Evangelical church is just constant demons, demons, demons, demons, demons because they're prepped for such a big deception.

12:13

Given those 3 camps, What I guess how do you respond to that?

It's not really a question, but like that's three camps that I'm seeing and I'm hearing your voice saying something kind of a like a little bit different and and weirder and and honestly creepier too.

It's way creepy.

It's way creepy.

12:28

I mean, we've got cases and hauntings that I mean with those various models of the phenomenon.

I think that we are being manipulated as a species.

Whatever we're dealing with has mapped us out and it's clocked us, as some of my young cousins say, right?

12:48

They clock you clock that they've clocked us, Daniel, And they know us on a consciousness level, not just on a biological level.

They understand consciousness in ways that we will never even imagine.

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13:06

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13:23

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13:47

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For one thing, it's something that I'm so fascinated by as of late is well, if they can be invisible, why would they want to be witnessed by us?

14:11

Right.

And what I'm realizing now in the data is that when we do witness them, it's usually an interface.

It's not really what they look like.

And so, and again, when we're dealing with apparitions and hauntings, we're dealing with orbs, balls of light that will diversify themselves.

14:29

They will project an apparition that looks as real as real can possibly be to the point where these witnesses will interact with these apparitions.

OK, San Pedro hunting again, Jack Hernandez.

She walks into her room and she sees what looks to be a corpse sitting on her bed.

14:49

He's Gray.

He's old.

He has a, he has a checkered shirt on.

His pants are, you know, high waisted.

And he's just staring at her.

And when Doctor Taff said no, was it an apparition?

She said no, right.

In other words, it wasn't like some translucent image.

15:07

It was like, you would be right or me, if we just hung out one day and and and killed a bunch of chicken wings, which hopefully we do right one day.

It would just be like us hanging out, like we would look real to each other.

That's exactly what she witnessed.

15:23

And even again, the same case study, they cornered one of these orbs in A room and it's shooting off these these lights.

All of a sudden it goes boom and there is an apparition staring at Doctor Taft.

15:40

He's a he's, it's, it's just half a body, though, but it's waist up.

It's an animated man by the way, he's looking at them intensely and he's moving.

He's animated.

That's supposed to be right.

What we're researching.

The problem is that we were not prepared for these entities to diversify themselves, because if we went around and documented the presence of an apparition, not realizing it came from an orb, that we have been mythologizing the mask.

16:08

OK, wow.

Mythologizing the mask.

In other words, the orb projects an image.

We've become obsessed with the image.

OK, so it's a bit like a Plato's cave in a sense.

We're looking at the the shadow on the wall and not realizing that something's casting the shadow just behind us.

16:28

Yes.

One caveat, because I love that allegory, is that the phenomenon is both the shadows and the fire.

It is projecting, right?

It's not like, OK, well, I believe I'm a reality.

No, no, no, no.

It's causing us to go out and document cases Where?

16:47

OK, how many T-shirts have you seen in conferences?

Right.

Where?

Ghost hunting.

OK, what is that exactly?

Right.

And it gets down to this idea that, OK, the phenomenon uses these interfaces to interact.

So it could be present with but absent from what's present with us.

17:05

My different is the mask.

It's possible, and I, I hate to be, I hate to say this, it's possible.

We've never truly seen its face.

We've only seen its interface, the mediator, the connective tissue between our perception and what it wants us to see.

17:27

And the problem is this.

We are a visual species.

We determined, at least in our biology, we determine threats by what we see.

And so the phenomenon, we'll say, OK, I'm Darren Edna, right?

17:43

Why?

Because it's, it's diversifying itself.

First of all, if that's the interface.

So if you could be invisible, why would you want to be witnessed by me?

What is actually going on here?

And so I am more along the lines of consciousness being hijacked and manipulated then I am about, you know, and by the way, I'm a car guy.

18:02

I love to go, go car shows, you know, smoke a cigar and all that.

I love that.

But I'm not an automobile enthusiast when it comes to the phenomenon because I've set in houses with families who have absolutely been devastated by this stuff.

18:19

And if all we're doing again is saying, OK, look at this car door, look at these wheels, wow, can it do amazing things.

That's great.

But why is it that I have cases where the people, literally the dogs have to go to the bed, the wife has to go to the doctor, the husband feels like he's dying.

18:40

He's got a he's got a triangle shaped scar on his head where something burned an image into a scalp.

If I were to go in there and say, well, this is a side truth, well, it's just nepheline.

Have a good night, guys.

Have a good night.

18:57

What are we doing?

Or, or I don't know much about what they are, but I can tell you what they're driving.

No, it will not work.

And I apologize for my passion, but we're going to have different conversations than that.

And and This is why I'm saying like you know, if disclosure is coming from ufology, we, we got it all all wrong though.

19:21

So do you think that, OK, you've got all these actors in our government right now?

Two that come to mind, Anna Paulina Luna, the the Republican congresswoman from Florida, and then Tim Burchett from Morsi, from Tennessee, I think.

And they're out there saying a lot of things, right, trying to drive this, they're driving this narrative.

19:42

And then you have all of these other Grush and these other characters, Lou Elizondo, who are claiming to have, you know, researched this phenomena for the government and they talk about us being in possession of craft and biologics and all of this From your perspective, are these people.

20:02

Lying are these people, do they believe what they're saying?

Are they are they acting on behalf?

Is this disinformation from the government or is it going to be disinformation from these entities we're discussing?

But like, how do you read all of that?

Because we're, we're being, yeah, I'm seeing it from every direction right now.

20:21

I'm just coming from everywhere such that at first I was like, oh, I see it's soft disclosure.

They leak it out a bit and a bit.

But now I'm like, no, it's coming from every direction.

I'm getting inundated with this as if I'm being prepared to receive some new message or some, some revelation.

20:36

So I'm, I'm trying to, I don't really trust any of it.

So I'm trying to sort through it.

Yeah.

So who are, what are these people talking about, do you think?

And do they have craft?

Well.

You said blood could come out of a cabinet, like actually these devices for US essentially to play with.

20:53

Well, you hit it on the head here pallet.

So yeah, they can manifest whatever they want to whatever they want to.

The school experiment in the in England in the in the 90s, they actually had like the phenomenon.

OK, they're doing seances and they're they're conjuring the phenomenon.

21:11

The phenomenon was manifesting solid objects to the touch and then somebody else would go and touch it and go right through the object right hand.

There's nothing there.

Now I'm going to ask you a question because it's it's so fascinating to me the way they word things.

21:29

If I were to tell you that we have non human biologics, what would that mean to you?

Right?

Because we're open source researchers, right?

We would hear what you know, we hear.

It's called non human biologics.

That kind of sounds like they have bodies.

21:45

It's not true.

It's not true at all.

It goes back to Peter Lavender and Michael Aquino, who by the way, Aquino was in charge of psychological operations.

He contracted with the government.

He was also also Nicole Test where he first of all, he left the Church of Satan in 75 and he started the what's called the temple of Set.

22:08

This the guy with the creepy eyebrows?

Creepy.

You know how he's like, he's playing, like, staying up all night.

Like, yeah.

Twiggling them, yeah.

Creepy man.

Creepy.

But anyways, Peter Lavender was in an e-mail exchange with Michael Aquino.

And again, Michael Aquino is an occultist.

22:27

He's a conjurer.

In fact, he went to Levay and said, look, I'm not a part of the Church of Satan because I believe Satan's a metaphor, right?

I'm not a I'm not a protagonist.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not anti God.

That's not why I'm here.

I'm here because an entity came to me.

22:45

That's what it that's what it came to said an entity came to me and told me that he is Satan.

He's a real entity and this is going to blow your mind.

And that his real name is Sat.

He's an Egyptian deity.

That's the guy that Lupita Lavinda was in contact with in.

23:01

The military guy, right?

Like this military guy.

High-ranking military.

Military guy.

Now that that's really creepy, but we got to do our show on that man, That's really weird.

But watch that.

So so Lavinda is is in a conversation with with Aquino.

And again, Aquino's in the government at this point and he's in charge of literal psyops.

23:22

Like not like conspiracy science, but literally that's his job.

But that's his job.

So Lavinda goes, he goes.

You know, Michael, he goes, something bothers me, he goes.

You mentioned the other day something about how we have non human biologics.

23:38

What does that mean?

We have bodies.

Listen to the word play.

You see, they're confident that we'll hear it and we'll come to a conclusion they want us to come to without giving us the proper definitions of the terms they're employing.

So are they lying?

23:56

And Aquino says non human biologics question mark Yeah, that's not bodies.

He said.

Whenever one of our one of our aircraft or specifically our rockets, whenever they we reenters, we said reenter the Earth's atmosphere, any of the dirt that it collect, this is not mind blowing.

24:17

Any of the dirt that's collected on the bottom of the rocket when it reenters the Earth's atmosphere, that's not human biologics.

So when we hear.

People say right underoath, yeah, we have non human biologics.

They're relying on our ignorance.

24:35

I mean, yeah, that.

That could be panda toenails would be non human biologics I mean.

Panda Toenails.

That's a good rock rock band named Panda Toenails.

You know, yes, absolutely.

You, you, you, you've got it.

And but it it goes to show you how far they're willing to go.

24:54

To to lead.

Us to a certain conclusion.

Meanwhile, behind closed doors, they're like, yeah, Can you believe they really bought that?

Insane.

That's part of what?

Really is bothering me about it because I keep saying to friends, I keep saying this and I feel like some people hear it and some people are like, I don't really get what you mean, but I keep going.

25:10

What's scarier to you?

That there are aliens or that the government's trying to make you think there's aliens?

Because to me, if you play that card and you're discovered, your credibility is forever destroyed, right?

Like there's like that's a, if the government is trying to convince the public that there is a war going on in heaven or that there are beings coming here and that's not true, Boy, that's a pretty harsh indictment.

25:39

And I'm curious to your take on, you know, there's there's the claim that Wernher von Braun on his deathbed said, you know, there's going to be a series of deceptions.

It's going to be the Russians are against us.

Then it's going to be terrorists.

25:54

Then it's going to be asteroids.

Then it's going to be we're being attacked by extraterrestrials.

And there's this obviously this through line in the conspiracy world of Project Bluebeam.

And this idea of a fake alien invasion just keeps coming and coming.

And then it dovetails again with the evangelical kind of Revelation view that there's a great deception coming.

26:13

And so so.

It's feels to.

Me that we're being led to believe something.

I feel like each day that goes by, I'm getting bread crumbs that are causing me to form a worldview that if I'm not careful is is preparing to see some kind of beings right come here and do whatever they're going to tell us they're doing.

26:34

So is this a deception like, you know, is our government working with these entities or being deceived by these entities?

I think.

Both, I think both.

And that's a sad conclusion.

I didn't want to come to that conclusion, but that's where my research led me.

26:52

I mean, and I'll tell you this too, there seems to be.

And this is really dark.

And deep a secondary government in this world.

We've, we saw them first when they're really glitches in the matrix, when, when men in black show up to your doorstep.

27:11

And this is comes from I think it was Tammy Stone's case study where she's an abductee and she had an out of body experience during her abduction.

And she literally is waking up the next morning brushing her teeth, trying to understand what, what actually happened to her the night before.

27:28

She gets a knock on the door and she she opens the door and there are two government officials.

Hello, Miss Stone, we're here because I'm going to ask you some questions.

Did you have a weird dream last night about being pulled out of your body?

27:45

Huh.

Right.

And then she's like, well, I haven't even told my mother that.

How did you know?

So there is this again.

And I I I I don't really like the term deep state because it has so many implications, but there is some kind of paranormal deep state breakaway.

28:01

Civilization is that too?

Far.

I mean, no, it's not under giant underground bases.

They're they're everywhere.

They're they're right here.

First of all, Daniel, they're right here.

They're not out there.

They're here.

OK, let's let's dive into that narrative for a second.

28:18

And it's not a narrative.

It's actually good research.

Let's go to the Skinwalker Ranch when they were doing thermal imaging.

And one of their.

Researchers is like, Josh, come here, You got to see this on the camera, Daniel, there is a skyscraper.

28:39

It's in the.

Basin.

It's a skyscraper.

Something out of Chicago, something out of New York City.

And they're going.

What is that?

So they send out one of their guys.

OK, here's the here's the coordinates.

28:54

Right?

Oh, you know, Hey, Jack, you're 200 feet off.

You got to keep going.

Keep going.

Now you're there.

Do you see anything?

Nothing's here.

Well, well.

And This is why I'm not settling for well, here's what a UFO is what we got.

29:10

Skyscrapers.

See what I'm doing?

Skyscrapers that are, again, they're not in the sky.

I get.

It's like, it's like, oh, it's right here.

Here and and.

It was another civilization and I know I sound I, I know I sound crazy, a little crazy, but I like a.

29:29

Little crazy.

Thanks but I'm just passionate man and this research is the only thing I'm good at so I'm just trying to pin going.

Down there, I want to try to pin something down here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is.

This construct?

No, I'm a construct.

OK, so I used to go down to the desert of Arizona and catch Bufo toads and squeeze their glands and we'd smoke that and for a minute.

29:54

But one minute you, you forget you exist.

You dissolve completely.

Your ego's gone.

And then when you come back into your body, it's kind of a bummer.

You're like, oh, man, me again, you know?

Oh no.

Pretty good where I was.

I I would feel like.

That definitely.

30:10

I'm like, oh God.

Oh yeah, all my.

Problems back again, but but I bring it up because when you come back, the immediate sense I had was the first time especially was oh, this isn't even real this reality is not even real.

30:26

This is like a this is a dream.

This is a a a construct.

This is a SIM.

This is a creation and whatever you want to call it, but it's it's just one very thin bandwidth of.

Infinity, right?

Are.

30:42

They.

I'm getting the impression you're saying they're not projecting a hologram the way we would think of it.

They're projecting into consciousness.

They're manipulating the the base reality that we are interpreting to be real.

31:01

Yes, Sir.

Absolutely.

I'm a big fan of The Matrix, by the way, but I'm an even bigger fan of Dark City.

Yeah, what a dark.

Movie, that is and.

Yeah, I it's like probably Dark City, Twister and Tombstone for me, by the way.

Anyways, my friend, yes, they're projecting consciousness and creating constructs out of it.

31:23

And the Collins elite realized that that's what they stumbled over in the 50s.

Now, what I mean when I say we live in a construct, I would not be surprised, honestly, if it turns out.

And there's a lot of data points that point to this, by the way, that we are in The Truman Show, essentially where everything is scripted.

31:45

My dear friend Steve Mirra.

And he, he, he's a great guy, but he's probably the leading parapsychologist.

You got to talk to him and you'll love him in the world, pal.

You would love him to death.

But anyways, Steve, his name is Steve Mirra.

Yes, Sir, I can get you guys in contact with him.

32:01

That'd be great.

But anyways, Steve was like experimenting with the phenomenon and, and during doing like EVP work and the phenomenon was like, yeah, listen, you're going to be at a conference and they start detailing where he's going to be up to the about 1614 to 16 months in the future.

32:21

And it would happen.

And, and Steve is like wondering because he's brilliant.

Guys like this ain't right.

I thought, I have free will.

And so another message came to him, OK, this is where you're going to be at this certain time in the future.

And so he like of the Tribbett Show, if you remember that one moment when he's got Laura Linney in his car and he's like, OK, watch this.

32:43

He turns the left instead of right, you know?

And they were like, oh, no.

And they come collapsing on to him.

That's what happened.

He's like, he's like, it got to a point, buddy.

He's telling me he's like, it got to a point where I did everything I was not going to do.

I just did everything the opposite.

I cancelled a bunch of plans, right?

33:00

You know, if I was going to go out tonight, I just sat home and watched Frasier, you know, shot the Fraser.

He's like, you know, I did everything opposite and he's like, next thing I know, right?

I'm right where they told me I was going to be.

So there is honestly, I would not be surprised if it's not aliens at all.

33:20

Honestly, I would not be surprised.

Then I'm going to tell you a story after this to kind of tie this together.

If it's not humans here, we can't see them.

We can't.

So another story for you.

This is this is amazing.

Did you just say?

33:36

You.

You.

Are you saying?

You wouldn't be surprised if it was actually humans.

I would not be surprised.

In other words.

That this might be it might be other humans, yes.

Living.

Or not in the way that we think of living or.

33:53

That's a good point.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

I, I, I don't know how they would exist.

I don't know what they're made of.

But I would not be surprised.

I mean, who built a skyscraper like that?

Right.

That's like, that's ridiculous.

You know, like, what is that?

That's not like some alien pod.

34:10

It's literally like you're in Chicago.

Like what is this?

So wait, wait, going.

Back to that skyscraper, then you're insinuating that it wasn't an apparition of a skyscraper, but actually a revelation of a another place.

And they they were living here.

We live urban.

34:26

Can I ask you one question?

I want to hear your story, but I just want to ask this do you think that the technologies that are rapidly upon us?

Come from them.

Or from us.

I think it's both.

I think it's both.

I think that whatever they are, they do give us insights.

34:42

You know, I, I do believe that.

I mean, I know people that have had dreams and then created multi $1,000,000 companies out of it.

Like an entity, like literally an entity, not a person.

Let's say a person is coming.

Oh, yeah, By the way, you might want to do AB and C.

And then they wake up and like, OK, I don't know why.

34:58

And it's a complete life change, right?

Complete, like career shift.

And they go into that business and other millions.

So I think that there is a measure of technology that is inspired by them.

But here's the problem.

A lot of the technology we're using to measure the phenomenon has been given to us by the phenomenon, right?

35:22

So that's a control mechanism.

That's another way to control the interface.

I'm only going to let you measure me right with my tools.

In other.

Words again, it's, it's not disclosure.

It's like, well, that's all we have, right?

35:39

It's another manipulation.

So years ago I met a lady and when we first started talking she had a huge scar.

And.

I noticed it.

It's like, OK, you know, how you doing everything.

35:55

And we're, we're we're catched up and everything.

And she goes, Nathaniel, she goes, I know you want to ask, go ahead.

And I'm like, OK, what, what happened?

And she goes, thank you for asking.

36:11

I was like, oh God, right.

But no, she's like, yeah, she goes years and years ago.

She's like, I, I worked as an EMS individuals associate, whatever they call them.

And she's like, you know, I'm in the she goes, I got a call, she goes, I'm in the ambulance.

I'm flying down the highway.

36:27

This blew my mind, dude.

It gave me chills.

I was like, there's no way.

She goes and I hit black ice and I'm ejected out of the ambulance.

My head hits the median.

Bam.

She said it.

Dissolved all of the connective tissue in my skull.

36:45

She goes and at the time we were like sitting in front of her house.

She goes, I can't even walk down the driveway.

She goes that's why I didn't walk down in the driveway to hang out with you.

She goes I had to sit up here.

She goes, if I fall right, I'm out, I'm done.

And she's in like, OK, like what's that's wild.

37:03

She's no she goes at a near death experience.

I said OK, She said.

I remember just opening my eyes into another reality.

She said and I'm.

There, looking at my father, who she's like and I've I've lost him 15 years ago.

37:23

And she said.

The colors were brighter, she goes.

It wasn't that I was breathing or not breathing.

I just, I had my own body.

I still have my body, she goes.

I'm looking at him and his first words go, It's crazy.

He goes, what are you doing here?

Right.

37:41

And she's.

Like, oh, I have no idea.

She goes, the last thing I remember was I, I got in a really bad wreck.

I don't know if I'm dead or what, but I, I know I'm not doing good out there or down there, wherever there is.

She's like, but I know that I don't feel sick anymore.

37:58

I'm not hurt anymore here.

And it's hyper real.

She's like, you know what?

I think it was more real than reality than this world.

And I said, OK, you know, I knew this was leading up to something and it kind of ruined my day because I, you know, I'm ADHD, pal.

38:14

So the rest of my day I'm like, what does that even mean?

She goes, my father looked at me and said, it's not your time yet.

You have to go back for your boys.

And I'm like.

Oh, no, because I knew the other, the other foot's going to drop right then, she said.

38:30

But Nathaniel, I didn't have my twin boys for a decade.

Yeah.

Boom, What are we dealing with?

What are we dealing with?

You know, again, we can get to to so many stories, but we have cases where beings just show up, walk through the walls.

38:49

No.

Something that I knew addressed too.

And then Steve and I have covered this extensively on NHI discussions, but what we're looking at are entities and craft that and Jacques Ley had one of these cases where it it goes through trees at an angle.

39:06

Does it disturb the tree line at all?

But when?

It lands on the turf.

It disturbs the turf.

Here's a theory, right?

It's not transplacing itself, it's the fact that those trees don't exist where in, when it's at, it's not there.

39:24

The geography does not exist for that craft, right in the only space we share with it is the turf that it disturbs.

So.

Now.

These are crazy theories, I understand, but now we go back into entities when they're walking through walls.

39:43

Why?

Because it doesn't exist for them.

It.

Doesn't same thing in ontology.

I I have a a video in my files of a shadow figure.

Again, this is what Lakatsuki is trying to articulate.

It's not your fault, it's something completely.

39:59

It's stranger where a shadow figures walking through a hallway and you see him.

It's just a shadow.

It's looks like a big guy, big burly guy.

And he walks through the hallway, opens the the door of a bedroom.

The door swings up.

And why?

Because he shares that part of geography with us.

40:16

But then he and then he opens up the door of the closet and walks right through the closet.

Why?

Because that is where he exists.

And there's a fleeting moment where these realities blend right in these entities.

40:32

This is crazy, I know, but I'm already, I'm already there, guys.

So in these entities know when that comes around enough to go.

Yeah.

Now they also know when it comes around enough to pull us out.

40:49

Example example.

Yes, that's an out of body experience.

That's a near death experience.

My buddy Joshua Cutchi, you probably want to talk to him too.

He has a book called The Ecology of Souls where literal people, this is wild.

41:06

Oh my God.

We're these people are being abducted and they're on this craft.

OK.

And.

There's a woman that walks up to them and I'm going to paraphrase one of the case studies.

It'll blow your mind, man.

Hi, I'm Becky and I died today.

What?

41:24

Yeah, I died today.

I'm here now.

I don't know why.

Well, again, one is deceased, the others an abductee, and the abductees, like, there's no way.

There's no I'm trying to have an alien.

Abduction here.

What are you doing with?

What are you doing?

Like, come on.

41:40

Yeah, yeah, I won't be mad, Right.

Like, where am I aliens at?

But again, that's a ghost, see.

And so this, Yeah, the, the, the person's like, listen, here's my name.

Here's my address.

Look me up.

41:57

And that.

Abductee leaves again that environment when it when it folds and there's going to connective tissue leaves that environment comes back to this environment and goes bam, they did die that day.

So here's the here's the the implications.

42:15

Either they know who dies, who's going to die or and and actually manifest as that person, right, which is really evil, or that that's actually somebody right that that is that transitioned.

42:35

So my point though is on that craft.

Though it's like, yes, taking that craft to the other side.

What does that mean?

Ray Fowler is a researcher.

He's dead now.

But Ray Fowler had a theory.

And again, guys, I I'm just talking shop here, just providing different models of the phenomenon that fascinated me.

42:54

But Ray Fowler said that they are the butterfly form of us and we are the larva form of them.

Now, if you take that to Michael Masters theory where they are US in the future, Yeah.

But that's that's that's time.

What about existence?

43:10

What about ontology?

And so we get into this space where it's like, again, we're kind of safe with UFOs because when we talk about this stuff, it's like, that's that's weird.

And it's stuff that nobody wants to talk about.

But these cases exist, and it's worth discussing.

43:30

I got a pretty.

Big background studying the difference between wild creatures and domesticated creatures.

And you know, I'm pretty fascinated by that.

And so I, I grabbed this quote of yours that really stood out to me.

It says that we must never let the others and you have others all caps.

43:45

We must never let the others domesticate consciousness.

And so it leads me to this question.

So to what end is it?

Is this a farm?

Is this, are we food?

Are we fuel?

Are we?

Resource of some.

Kind like if I think of why we domesticate things, sometimes it's food, sometimes it's a product like we want, you know, their silk or something like their fur pellet.

44:09

Sometimes it's we want their labor.

What to what end?

What, what would we provide?

Why?

Why would entities that appear to be this advanced have it?

First of all, if it's us in some future time space, why deceive us and why harm us?

44:28

So like, so to what end?

Well.

I believe we are in a parasitic relationship with the phenomenon.

I do too.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, you know, I wish it was different, but that's the data.

44:44

I had a word from you too.

Today, neuroparasitology, it's.

One of those big ones, yeah, yeah, yeah, I well, of course it is parasitic.

And and column Callagher mentioned this, he was a little one of the lead, if not the leading scientists from the National Institute of Discovery Science and Bigelow's group, he talks about, yeah, we are in a relationship with a parasitic presence.

45:10

And my point, though, is that yes, I think they're OK.

Let's go to a case.

Study that Gary Nolan had in France.

This will freak you out even more.

It was all the way back.

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A little girl.

Is in a car and she looks up for the sunroof and she sees a craft or the craft, right?

46:53

Wants to be seen by her.

She locks eyes on it, It creates A conscious connection with her.

Then she begins to describe what she's witnessing with her eyes to her mother, and her mother takes out her Apple iPhone and goes, snap, I got a picture of it.

47:15

The problem is what the what the daughter witness with her eyes was completely different than what came up on camera.

But she did get.

Something on camera.

She did get something.

Now here's the question.

There should be 1.

There's two now.

47:32

Oh my God, where'd the second one come from?

It came.

From the conscious connection the phenomenon created with her.

And now she sees a craft now something that that Steve and I have been bouncing around.

It's actually really terrifying.

47:48

This is probably the darkest theory I have was that something caused her to observe it, and as she was observing it, it pulled something out of her consciousness and she's seeing it now.

Those are two different craft.

48:03

Which one's real and why?

See the Collins.

Elite research.

What they got down to was absolutely fair.

We give a little background.

For people who aren't familiar, I you know, and the book is what final events?

I highly highly recommend this book.

Oh, it's wild.

48:19

It's so it's a wild ride.

Yeah.

The Collins elite were a group of of physicists in the Department of Defense who were fascinated by the occult connection, the connective tissue between ufology and ritual magic.

48:36

And so they investigated Jack Parsons and and just they talked to Sybil League and people like to to paint them as fundamentalists, which is wild because that's where they began.

That's not where they ended up.

Oh, that's.

Interesting to know, because the book kind of ends painting them as Christian fundamentalists.

48:53

Oh yeah, yeah.

Well.

I grew up in evangelicalism, OK, my dad's a pastor.

I have the actual document that is basically the the entire collective writings and communications between Ray Boucher, Linda Moulton Howe and the conflict.

49:09

So I have the whole file and no, you're ready for this, pal.

They believed, and their research LED them to believe, that we live in a hologram.

And.

That really resonates.

49:25

With me based on my of course of course.

Man, you know, I think that anybody, any rational researcher would come to that conclusion.

You know, like, hey, listen, this is where we're at.

My point, though, is the Collins elite discovered that we live in a hologram and then they went into this kind of monolith phenomenon that that that I'm leaning into heavily.

49:42

Is that that practitioners of the occult in the government?

We're performing.

Ceremonial magic.

And they were projecting their consciousness.

Oh man.

And they're projecting their intention and consciousness out of their bodies collectively.

49:59

Stark City, right?

They're tuning and as they're tuning, right, constructs are emerging buildings, right?

And people think that's reality.

Mind blowing.

But the college, Elise said, OK, these people were actually projecting their consciousness and intention collectively into another environment.

50:20

And they were creating physiological constructs with their collective projected consciousness.

So much so that witnesses in that other environment were perceiving their constructs as UFOs.

50:39

OK.

OK, that starts to make sense to me now.

So the the UFOs may be projections of the consciousness of the conjurors themselves 100%.

Now that's why reality doesn't exist for wow.

So it's crazy.

50:55

OK, Peter Levinda.

One of my favorite researchers because we can we're on the different into the spectrum.

He and I spectrum he and IA good guy.

And but he he wrote a book and he wrote it.

He helped write a series of books called Secret Machines with Tom Delong AJ Hartley.

51:13

But one of his theories was that yes, that that a lot of these UAPSUFOS are actually projections of ceremonial magicians.

Wow.

Interdimensional outside of the construct, and they're projecting their consciousness inside of the construct.

51:36

Now we got time.

We good now.

Now please.

Now we're going to get into some of the USSR parapsychological research in the 70s.

They were in right today Russia, but USSR then they were performing experiments in a controlled laboratory and they had an individual there and they, they placed a blank piece of paper in an envelope, taped the envelope to the practitioner's head, OK, and said, OK, project your consciousness into that envelope.

52:09

OK, so they go through the process, right?

And and then out of Noah, that's OK.

Not just that.

We want you to project your consciousness to the point where we want you to carve symbols into that piece of paper.

And they did it, my friend.

So then this is my blog.

52:25

Then they did this.

It's OK.

We're going to take a step further, 20 feet away.

We're going to place, we're going to place the envelope 20 feet away, OK.

And then we're going to do the same thing.

What happened between then and and before is that from the mind of the practitioner, consciousness was projected and there's a translucent cloud of energy that evolved and merged and transferred and hovered like a cloud.

52:50

Translucent cloud, by the way, visible to.

Visible my.

Friend, Oh my gosh, you're going to love this.

And so it's floating through right the room and they're watching this eyes as big as saucers.

53:06

What is that?

And it moves across the room and it descends now down upon, upon the the envelope.

And next thing they know, they wait a little bit, right?

They take it.

They're just, you know, open it up.

And the person had carved symbols into that piece of paper from 20 feet away.

53:29

Now, there are two things that is worth noting #1 symbols occurred by virtue of projected consciousness.

OK.

Then we have this activity.

We have the translucent cloud.

It's called a bio field.

Inside the cloud are are orbs.

53:45

Now it was documented as ball lightning OK.

As ball lightning.

So I'm going same thing, right?

Yeah.

Well, what what what they what they realized was no like consciousness can be viewed as a cloud right after it leaves the body and inside that cloud are corpuscular balls of light we would call orbs.

54:06

Again, it's the projected consciousness model.

Now I have a case study of doctor Carla Turner's OK and Doctor Turner had it's fascinating.

And I, I've worked with the family as well that that this happened to the husband and the the father and the son are in the living room.

54:23

They're watching television.

The mother is sleeping next to them.

OK.

And as they're watching television, my friend, here comes the same kind of translucent cloud, right?

It's hovering.

It went through the hallway into the living room.

54:40

It descends down upon the sleeping mother. 40 minutes later, she says I was abducted by an alien.

The problem is.

My friend, she woke up with sigils on her body.

Where'd that come?

From like, it's the same thing with a vendor's model, right?

54:59

That came from a practitioner projecting his or her consciousness into that woman's body.

So what?

We're looking at and this is my model of phenomenon is yes, these seem to be prep a species of practitioners my friend and the colons at least stumbled over that Peter Levento stumbled over it.

55:24

I stumbled over in my incubile research.

So it's possible that a lot of what we're witnessing and experiencing in Ufology, right?

I mean.

Matthew Roberts do my ADHD is kicking it buddy and I'm feeling really comfortable with you.

55:41

So I'm just hanging out real quick.

Please.

Matthew Roberts OK, again what I got the quote here.

What did the what did what Katzke say?

It starts out with witnessing the craft, right?

And So what happens is Matthew Roberts is is he witnesses the gimbal.

55:57

You may pee.

That was the phenomenon catching his eye, right?

It wants to be seen.

Now it can be invisible, but why would it want to be seen?

So it's observed and he lays eyes on it.

He goes home.

This is crazy.

And he's sleeping in the middle of the night, and a voice comes to him and begins to give him instructions on which occult literature to read.

56:19

Nope, all set.

That's a no for me, dog.

Right.

I'm an American Idol.

Yeah, that's a no for me dog.

Well, in them.

And then something even crazier happens.

Like, OK, first of all, he wakes up the next day like, whoa.

And so he's he's reading Manly P Hall, you know, and all that.

56:36

And then he's like, well, this is really cool stuff.

And then he goes to bed again.

In an entity.

Comes to him, a female as a succubus and assaults him.

56:52

Sexually.

Well, I couldn't.

Yeah, I didn't.

Want to go there, pal?

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

It defiles him in the next morning.

Here's where we're at.

He's dry heaving.

I thought it's all love and light.

No, he's literally try heaving my friend.

57:10

He's outside of his.

This is his testimony outside of his apartment and he just.

He's devastated.

In, in, in.

What happened was the phenomenon came back to him and said you were being initiated into what, Daniel into what?

57:30

So my point is this appears not, it's not just it's not a glitch in the Matrix.

It's not, it's not a, a bug, it's a feature, right?

It's a feature.

There is a species of practitioner that is, that is initiating people through these encounters.

57:47

And that's where I'm at.

OK, I want.

To ask a couple questions about.

So you said your dad's a pastor and you and I both have obviously a lot of experience in the evangelical church when I'm.

Yeah, when I'm there, I consider myself a follower of Christ.

But I struggle deeply with the church today because I feel like I'm reading one of those like little kid Bibles when I talk.

58:08

You know what?

I.

Mean.

Yeah, yeah, very, very.

Very, very simplified, right?

I read it a little different for me, I read it like there's we live in this construct.

The construct got high hijacked, then we're trapped in it, and then eventually the creator of the construct downloads his son into it.

58:30

He comes in and he says like the ruler of this world is coming.

He has no claim over me, right?

So in other words, he's saying Jesus is saying this world's got a ruler.

He's not a good guy.

He's got some claim on everybody, right?

58:48

They, the church would call it sin or whatever it is.

But it's like somehow there's something that keeps us victims to this authority here, which is also called the power of the Prince of the Air, which is like.

That's kind of weird.

But alright.

59:03

And then it says that Jesus basically his death pays is a ransom payment, which is really fascinating because a ransom payment is something you pay to get a kidnap victim or a slave their freedom.

59:19

So I feel like the story that I hear from Christians is like, I'm like, yeah, it just feels like the little kid version, the grown up version is a lot more wild and intense.

And, and if people knew the grown up version, they'd find it much more interesting, I think.

But but I get the impression and I love, I got the Shroud of Turin up there because I, I love that image because it's like then he he leaves, he like they literally don't have a claim on him.

59:42

He's out.

He's out, he's out.

I'm just curious how all that lands.

I, I feel like that story is a story of, of a, of a hijacked dimension where humans got into some kind of pact with another species and then become, I don't know if we're food or if we're fuel or what, but we're like, you call them parasites and it's like, well, parasites, you know, they need nutrition or they need something from the host, right?

1:00:08

Yeah.

I I.

Would.

So.

There's so many directions to go with that, man.

We always have good conversations, pal.

It's always like, OK, where I want to go with us.

It's like you you hit me with something.

I'm like, OK, yeah, I do believe it's, it's parasitic and neuro parasitology.

1:00:24

It's so fascinating.

First of all, I had a conversation with an ecologist a while ago and we're talking about parasites in the ocean and all this and like parasitic mimicry and all that.

And the conclusion of the talk was essentially the the phenomenon is parasitic, not just in the way it mimics us by the way, but the way it changes our neurology.

1:00:47

And this, this is, this is a data point that's throughout all of the case studies.

It's, it's not just shared like, or it doesn't just exist in one field.

It's everywhere in the paranormal where when you are entertaining the phenomenon, it is pulling everything out of you.

1:01:02

It's looking at your, your life story.

I mean, literally within milliseconds.

It's got everything, everything.

OK, cool.

Well, you know, you've experienced the phenomenon and then, but you're being experienced by it.

So it's a, it's a, it's that kind of relationship that's symbiotic.

1:01:18

My point is that it changes your neurology.

So people will experience the phenomenon or they'll witness a craft and they'll be awestruck.

And I've heard this over and over again.

I wanted to reach for my phone.

It's right here, but I didn't.

Why?

I don't know, right?

1:01:34

Or I had a case study of a lady that was accosted by an entity.

It appeared to be her husband.

No, this is wild.

She's in her bed.

That's crazy.

This.

Is going to blow her, my pal.

She's in her bed and she's getting ready for bed and everything, and she sees her husband.

1:01:51

It was like a shadow figure or something to the left of her peripheral vision.

And then when it, when she observes that it's her husband, which is weird, right?

And then and then like he assaults her and she's like, I remember like being in a stupor.

I was really tired and I didn't really, you know, I couldn't get considered.

1:02:08

It was just like what's happening and the mind blowing part about this is when it it had like issues with this physiognomy, right?

It looked like her husband, but it couldn't hold its shape.

And so it was like glitching in and out AI art or something.

1:02:23

AI pal.

Exactly.

That's a, that's a great thing.

Yeah, great point.

And so and she realizes, like, wait a minute, right.

She's coming back to herself, she realizes.

There's something wrong.

About you, you, you, you.

1:02:40

You know you can't be my husband.

And then she's remembering what the phenomenon caused her to forget.

Well, of course, Becky, it's not your husband because your husband's right right next to you sleeping, buddy.

1:02:55

And she's going and I didn't.

Literally, there's two of them.

And it blocked her memory.

OK.

That's called neuro parasitology, where it changes your neurology.

1:03:11

It causes you to think what it wants you to think.

In fact, there I say it thinks on your behalf.

It's it wants to think.

It's your thoughts.

It's not right.

And so that's neuro parasitology.

I mean, I sometimes like when I do lectures, I talk about Toxoplasma Gandhi where it gets into the.

1:03:30

Let's go, buddy.

Let's go, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, buddy.

So right it it gets you're talking about fungus.

That in fungus that change the behavior of right not literal.

Fungus.

But like consciousness.

A parasitic, cryptic consciousness.

It's.

So what happens again?

It's like, OK, I'm a mouse.

1:03:46

Yeah.

I'm terrified of of cats.

Why?

Because cats love me, they're going to eat me and I'm, you know, that's a predator.

What it does is it retunes the mind, changes your neurology.

1:04:02

Well, now I'm craving cat urn.

Why?

Because it's not you craving it, right?

It's the entity within.

It's the phenomenon.

And So what it does is it changes the neurology of that mouse and now it's over there in proximity of a predator.

1:04:18

Now here's the point.

Why?

Because the main goal of the parasite is to get another host, which is the cat.

It's the cat buddy.

It's the cat.

So what we're looking at now again, even in within, just like Matthew Roberts case, right?

1:04:34

This is what cats he's trying to articulate.

I thought, hey, it's just a UFO.

No, no, no, no, no, that was that was the parasitic entity and observing it.

We call it in the field hitchhiker effect, right observing it went into my bloodline and now I'm dude, I've got a case study of a lady that witnessed she was a a CE5 practitioner.

1:04:58

These are.

The folks that working under Greer trying to call these, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course, I always called the Spirit Spirit Airlines, you know, because a lot of times they'll be contrary.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry guys, but it is funny.

But it was this individual was like, she's like, you know, she's like my husband and I have been practitioners to CE5 for a while was just like, you know, and we finally succeeded in lights manifested above us in the sky and we were like, Oh my goodness, you know, it's a life changing experience.

1:05:30

And I was like I.

Scrolled down the emails.

Like, read on, because I know what's going to happen.

I was like, well, OK, let's see.

She's like, yeah, She's like, the problem is, like, a couple days later, something really violent happened to us.

Beings manifested to us, to both my husband and I, and we woke up the next day, like, beat up violently.

1:05:51

And she's like, dude, was that a dream?

And he's like, I don't think that was a dream at all.

Something really bad happened to us.

You know, they had the physical, right, the manifestations of it.

They just don't remember what happened.

And then she goes.

You know Nathaniel.

That was traumatic.

1:06:07

Enough.

She's like it rocked our household and we very rarely talk about.

She's like but to.

Top it all off, I wake up one day and I have a symbol.

This is a.

Recurring theme, huh?

Absolutely.

Again, a symbol in my right eye.

1:06:25

Whoa, whoa.

And I'm going, oh, no.

Because, you know, a lot of these case studies, it's like, I don't want that to happen.

A lot of the stuff I don't even want to know, right?

I mean, I feel called to do the research, but this is like real dark stuff.

1:06:42

It's just like, you know, she goes, it was in my right eye, on the bottom right eye and she goes, I, I this is crazy.

She goes, I saw it.

She goes when I close my eyes, I could see it.

When I went to work, I could see it.

She goes.

It got to a point where I thought it was in physically in my eye.

1:07:04

She goes, no, I went to my optometrist.

He looks at my.

Eye comes back and says there's nothing there.

She goes, but I see it.

Come on man.

She goes, I see it right now, it's right, it's right there.

1:07:21

I could see the symbol.

He goes, no, what you're seeing is not physically in your vision.

Something else is producing that.

When?

People again, what I'm trying to stress over and over again.

1:07:37

Is that?

It's not we cannot afford, we cannot afford to be automobile enthusiasts with this phenomenon because real people are going through this well, it also.

Occurs to me, you know, you've see you've got those CE5 practitioners, you got all this group of people who they're calling these things to themselves and they're and now we're getting again inculcated in this idea.

1:08:02

What I see a potential for is a mass psychological desire to see these things, which seems like a way to invoke a mass experience of this possession or parasitology or whatever kind of thing.

Like, like if you have, especially because there's a savior narrative woven through it, like, oh, our world's getting so out of control.

1:08:23

Maybe these more advanced beings can help us set the world straight and help us govern ourselves.

So, so you're going to have all these people inviting these entities into themselves.

Like if seeing them is in like, so many people wish they could see a UFO.

And it seems to me, you know, my mom's life was destroyed by this.

1:08:40

And actually I want to ask this other question.

Yes, Sir.

My mom.

'S a a negative O negative blood type?

My wife's an A negative.

What's up with these RH negative?

Is there a thing to that?

Because both my wife and my mom have the strangest experiences and they're both RH negative and I hear that come up a lot.

1:09:00

Are there people who are predisposed for some reason to this?

I I do believe that's the case.

And it's not just the blood type Gary Nolan has.

His research is phenomenal.

But Gary Nolan, he's a pathologist and he was researching the brain activity of experiencers, you know, and again, it's just that's where the research leads.

1:09:25

It's fascinating.

But he sat down with one like a grandfather, OK.

He goes, OK, have you ever witnessed anything that that's paranormal in your lifetime?

And the guy goes, yeah, absolutely.

And he can list all the all the cases right in his experiences.

He's OK.

1:09:41

Do you mind?

If we do a brain scan on you.

He goes sure so.

Do a brain scan on him and there was some kind, I'm going to say this loosely like a scar tissue on the part a part of his brain and.

1:09:59

He's like, OK, so.

You've experienced the phenomenon.

You have an anomaly on your brain scan.

OK, cool.

Do you have a you have a son?

Yeah, I have a son.

OK.

The son comes in, right?

Interviews.

Gary.

Gary does.

OK.

Have you experienced the paranormal?

All my life, I see all kinds of stuff.

1:10:15

You know, it's annoying.

OK.

Do you mind if we do a brain scan?

Sure.

So same anomaly, same part of the brain, second generation, second generation, and then the third generation comes, OK, if you've experienced anything the paranormal.

1:10:32

Not at all.

Not at all.

OK, they do the brain scan and the same anomaly occurs on the part of the brain the phenomenon had targeted.

Once my tradition had targeted one generation, tailored that experience for the grandfather just to bleed into the bloodline of the family.

1:10:59

Turret changed.

Neuroparasitology changed the neurology of that child.

So literally you have a.

Grandfather 50 years ago experienced except for the paranormal.

It's in the bloodline now and it's after someone else down the line.

1:11:16

Do you think that when?

People get involved.

When I say involved in the occult, I don't mean they go down to the local shop and buy like tarot cards.

But I mean when they get.

Serious about it?

Do you think that they're inviting these things into their bloodlines?

And also, do you think that human beings get power from these things in some way if they open themselves to them?

1:11:37

Yes, they are.

I've had cases where the family's distraught and we go back on the bloodline and the entity is claiming the wife, you're mine, and we go back to the bloodline and there was an occultist there that had made a pact with that entity and now it comes back around demanding.

1:11:55

Payment.

How then do we live?

Right?

So, so this stuff's going on.

There's clearly a benevolent force at work as well.

There's clearly goodness in the world and forces of goodness.

You know, again, I brought up Jesus.

It's like, you know, his teachings of of love and forgiveness and you know those kind of living in that way does seem to keep.

1:12:17

This stuff.

Away.

At least that's been my experience.

What do you think?

Of that is there a way to keep this stuff away and what do you think about the benevolence in the universe as well I again.

It's.

It points to a construct.

My old pastor Hashir, when he was preaching out in the evangelistic field, he'd be running out of gas and go into a gas station, right, to make a phone call or something, and there would be some random stranger.

1:12:42

Are you literally?

I'm not exaggerating.

Are you Hashir?

Yeah.

All right, I've been hanging out for two hours.

Here's 200 bucks.

God bless, I promise you.

And then and then Hashir.

And he's like, OK, I got gas money to get to my next revival.

1:12:59

By the way, I like telling these stories too, guys.

I'm not all like, dark, you know, Dark City over here.

But but anyways, he goes to the cashier.

He's like, dude, who was that guy?

He's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

He's got the money in his hand, right?

That freaks me out.

So we're looking at is, yes, I mean, I do believe there is a benevolent species out there.

1:13:19

But the idea is that the war is won.

And I'm.

Not sure.

I mean, at least in my, in my world view, it's like, well, you know what we know of demonology, right?

Was recorded 2000 years ago.

1:13:36

It's not monolithic, right?

It's not like they're just stuck in there like, oh, you know, I'm doing what I like.

No, they evolved.

They evolved so.

So there are things that could have gone on since right that we're not aware of.

But I'm equally as.

1:13:51

Fascinated by angelology, you know, I, I, I've had experiences with that particular aspect of the phenomenon.

It's incredible.

It really is.

It makes you feel so small though.

You're like, I don't know anything, right?

I'm just, I'm like this big, you know, so well, that's, I guess like.

I'm wondering, are we caught in a cosmic battle that's bigger than us?

1:14:09

And.

I guess.

All right, so if the evangelical church's perspective is like, well, we don't need to do anything, we're going to be rescued by Jesus, right?

Like that's the kind of that that's there's that worldview, right?

And then you could see how that would set you up to be further parasitized over time if that wasn't true.

1:14:34

At the same time, whenever I see people being like, no, we need to use our consciousness to become who we truly are, that always seems to lead into this kind of like apotheosis, self aggrandizing.

And everyone I know that goes down that call it new age or call it whatever, kind of like spiritual path where no, I'm a part of God and I'm going to evoke God in myself.

1:14:57

They always end up lost in my experience.

I never see that leading anywhere and they end up really.

Weird, but they end up really weird.

OK, Like, I'm like, let's do breathing exercises.

I'm like, you kind of just, you know, hyperventilate and that's all you're doing.

You're probably going to pass out.

Yeah, I'm not.

1:15:12

I'm not in that corner either.

I just, I think that people say, OK, it's all spirits.

It's like, OK, well, you know, Steve and I, we've done research with iron.

And when people carry iron, it's almost like it absorbs the frequency, not a new age frequency, right?

Like, but literally a scientific frequency that the phenomenon uses to hold itself together in this reality.

1:15:36

And we've, we've, but The thing is when I tell people to do that, even, you know, especially Christians, they're like, well, what's that, you know, And they, they make me out to be some like, you know, new age practitioner.

And I'm, I'm the farthest from that.

But to get them in that mode of OK, like, yeah, it can, it can be spiritual.

1:15:55

It is spiritual.

But what is a spirit exactly?

Right.

Is it again, what is that?

Because I could tell you this, a lot of what we've claimed to be spirits in haunted analysis.

Again, they share that connective tissue with projected consciousness.

1:16:10

I have, I have videos of my archive of orbs and, and following the orb is that white cloud, right?

What are we dealing with here?

And so that's why as I, as I sit here, I'm, I'm just like, well, look.

1:16:27

I I.

I don't have to have all the answers, sure.

Right, I just.

Want the right questions?

In in again.

It's like the government doesn't want us to ask the right questions.

They want us to say, OK, you know what we have?

1:16:43

We have bodies.

Well, I have antibodies.

They're not bodies, right?

So it's like we're being LED astray.

And it's frustrating because I'm after the phenomenon.

I'm not after.

I don't have a pre presuppositions.

1:17:00

I don't have conclusions.

I don't.

I just, I would have the data and, and if the data validates your worldview, amazing, right?

But don't create dogma.

And that is what ufology is becoming, nothing but dogma.

1:17:16

And we have dogma tests and that's primarily what we have in the field.

It's frustrating because I I really don't care.

I don't care because they want it to be.

Little green men from outer space, you're saying that's their does.

So they're looking for confirmation.

But I'm looking for an anti parasitic spiritual, anti parasitic drug personally.

1:17:34

I mean, me, it's like if there's some kind of parasite on our species, I, I would like to know how to eliminate that or kill that or, or, or love it out of existence or whatever I need to do and whatever The thing is, that is the weapon against it that I'm very interested in that, you know?

1:17:53

Yeah, I think it has something to do with an exorcism.

I don't know.

I have no idea.

I just, you know, it'd be along a lot those lines.

But yeah, man, I, you know, I'm not in this for, for anything else but the data.

And here's why.

Because I'm tired of meeting 70 year olds, right?

1:18:12

Executive CEO's, pastors, deacons, doctors who write their, their age on paper is 70 and they're accomplished.

But inside of them they're that 8 year old boy who's sitting in a haunted house wondering what is going on it because I grew up with that.

1:18:31

And so I want answers.

I, I, I want to know, I want to help.

I don't, I don't want to sell again.

I'm not, I'm not like, hey, listen, you know, go buy my merch, You know, here's some T-shirts.

That's cool.

Maybe one day I'll do that.

1:18:47

But at this point in my career, it's like, have all of that.

I don't care.

Do it, My friends do.

It's fine.

As long as at the end of the day, we sit down like I had with housewives and say, hey, listen, right, here's what we, what we're doing, here's what we're looking for.

1:19:05

Because what doesn't work is hey, I literally, I've had a lady shaking the table, sweating profusely.

Her husband, by the way, has Bell's palsy.

His left side of his face is paralyzed because he challenged an enemy the night before.

1:19:21

She's shaking the, the, the table, the tick, the, the dishes are clinging and the husband's drooling and he's going.

I don't know what else to do.

What if I were just to be like a lot of these other guys would be like, well, it's nepheline.

Have a good night.

See you.

Or yeah.

1:19:38

That's a UFO.

God bless.

It's not actionable.

Does it do anything for them?

Or how about this?

Oh, God.

I'm going to get Job.

You know, I know you're hurting, right?

But come to my lecture.

1:19:54

See ya.

It doesn't do anything.

Yeah, but what?

Does do something that that's that's the question.

Now there are some theories.

Now my OK, so if we're doing poltergeist activity, ignore it.

Ignore it.

1:20:11

What it's doing is it's baiting your gaze, it's wanting to be witnessed, and as soon as you fear it empowers it, it's stronger in.

What that will do is it will change from poltergeist to something else entirely.

OK, well that makes.

Me think then that part of what it's feeding on is fear.

1:20:27

I mean, you hear this constantly.

It's a trope at this point.

Our fear is like a frequency of food for them or something like that.

It is.

It is.

I, I grew up without and so I know that as, as an experienced fact, it's not a theory for me.

It would induce me into looping nightmares of people hurting themselves.

1:20:46

And I, I was 8 year old kid.

I mean, the guy I didn't, I didn't even know what insulin was right.

But someone had a needle in their arm in the nightmare.

I had no idea what it was.

And, and I mean, I was so innocent pal.

My buddy across the street, he was like, he's like 60 now, but he was a cool dude.

1:21:06

I had carte blanche and I would go in the house anytime.

Anyways, here's how innocent I was.

He was like, now son, he goes, you come here anytime.

He's like, but you know that that weed over there, I'm like, yeah, he goes, don't tell anybody about that.

I'm like, well, why would he?

It's a weed.

Who cares?

I was that innocent.

But the phenomenon knew them.

1:21:23

And so I.

Would be in induced to a looping nightmare man where I can't get out of the dream and then I would wake up and I would be so helpless and just small in weak and I'm like dude, there's something feeding on me like what is this?

1:21:41

And then I could feel like the weaker I got, the stronger it became.

And.

You know, my, my friend Paul Sinclair in England has, has suffered the same thing.

We don't know what that is.

Some people say we're initiated.

Well, that, that was not fun, you know, So I, I don't know what's going on there, but I think that we're evolving to a place where we're figuring out some things to push the beast back in the darkness with consciousness.

1:22:08

Belief, belief's a big thing.

Matter of fact, a very old paper that the Collins elite were pushing around in the government, this will blow your mind, was that we don't want to bring about this closure because it will cause people to believe in them and they operate on a different level of physics.

1:22:27

And the more you.

Believe in them the more they manifest.

What is that?

That's weird pal, but I'm getting the.

Impression.

The more I look at it, the more it manifests, right?

So it's there we go.

Now we're in simulation theory, and we didn't even start there, right?

1:22:47

It's my brother's video game.

I'm not a gamer.

He is.

But you know, it's the flashlight, and you only see in the game what the flashlight hits.

If the flashlight doesn't pick it up, it's not there.

So again, what we're looking at now, at least myself and my my colleagues, we're we're looking at the phenomenon seeking to be seen to pull something else out of us.

1:23:10

And that's why you have two craft instead of 1.

Yeah, 1.

One has come out of us and 1 drew it out of us, and so, So what 1.

'S really there, right?

And then we observe it, and it's the observer effect, right?

As we're observing it, something else shows up.

1:23:29

This is again, the Collins Elite research.

What were they saying?

That that consciousness created a UAP.

Oh my goodness.

And that's one of the my leading theories now in my in my, my world.

Now it's like, OK, that would explain why there's two and not one.

Why?

Because the craft wanted to be observed by that little girl, and then once she observed it, it triggered that consciousness aspect of.

1:23:53

That's the bait, the.

First thing is the bait exactly right.

And then something else crawled out of her consciousness.

But we're looking at my friend is a species that has mapped out and curated and is weaponizing our consciousness to birth from belief something else in the construct.

1:24:19

So it's making sense.

Look, I know I'm crazy.

I know.

I just want to like.

Figure out what to do I mean that's that's like what do I do then I mean it's not afflicting me, which is great but but then I'm in a shared reality with everybody else here yeah having this experience and so honestly I I.

1:24:39

I'll, I'll give you my advice.

It's the same thing.

I told my friend the other day, he's a researcher and he's like, man, like all hell is breaking loose in my family.

And I said, stop research, get out, get out.

And, and I, I've had days where I, I think about that right where I'm just going to go stock shows, you know, I'll put my air pods and listen to some Rogan or something and just then leave all this behind.

1:25:02

But I do feel called to this work.

And I can't.

Leave it alone, like it's a part of that stare into the abyss.

Long enough and become it.

That's.

The idea right?

So it's.

Like we're dazzled by it.

It's it's awe inspiring and it's dazzling and it's interesting, but it's, that's the trap of it, right?

1:25:18

So it's like, I love that scene in Fury Road and Mad Max Fury Rd. where if you remember, they're driving along and he sees the naked woman up on the top of the tower and there's like CDs hanging that are flashing light.

And he goes, that's bait.

You know, it's like, I think because because what it appears to me is about to happen is, is potentially lots of people are going to be given the opportunity to look at it and of course.

1:25:44

And it seeks to be seen now.

Yes, it's creating controvers and they're being conjured to conjure.

And God.

Help us, because we don't know what's going to come crawling out of their consciousness.

1:26:00

What do you expect the future to look like here?

I mean, the, there's a lot of weird stuff happening, dude.

I mean, you know, like we've just found out about like for instance, with the Epstein files, it's like, you know, what is even if you give that the you're, you're even if you give that the kindness to take, you're like, there's definitely massive slave trade going on of human beings, particularly young children and young girls, you know, pubescent, prepubescent, just maybe 1718 year old girls even.

1:26:28

They're being traded, they're being sold, they're being moved around.

People might be being consumed, you know, as food in some cases.

You get this, this whole you can't get rid of this.

You know, I would love to just.

Drop some of this stuff like oh.

Yeah, we're done with the adrenochrome thing.

But then you get this grape soda thing constantly through the whole narrative that you're like, man, it kind of sounds like that's what they're saying.

1:26:49

And then and then on to right after that, they're like the UFOs now, too.

And so you're like, where is this narrative going?

What's happening here?

Yeah, it's like, OK.

And it's like, OK, we're gonna release the files.

We're gonna release the files, OK, There are no files.

1:27:05

What are you talking about?

Well, you told us you released them, right?

And it's like, OK, well, not really.

We'll release like 1% of them.

There's like millions of other files that we've yet to even see, of course.

And then out of nowhere, here comes disclosure.

Well, what's disclosure Like?

What do you mean?

1:27:20

Like we're talking literally not to get like, political anything.

We're talking about people who are like, I'd rather tell you about aliens.

Yeah, yeah.

They tell you about what's going on.

It's like, right.

What it's like who's in the files is like, I don't know, but here's JFK.

Yeah.

What are we doing?

1:27:36

You know?

And yeah, that's a scary thing when all that happens.

You you know what, what what's happening for me is it's as all of the old I keep joking with people.

It's who who aren't kind of more normie.

I'll be like, so you don't understand what the conspiracy theories are now, because all the stuff you think are conspiracy theories have all been now shown to be true.

1:27:54

So the stuff that is now fringe is really fringe.

Like the fringe stuff is way out now because the Overton windows shifted so far that you can talk about Insectolins on Fox News now and you can talk about.

Yeah.

Sex rings and it's yeah, like we need new conspiracies because all the others were like, check, check, check.

1:28:14

It's like, not conspiracies, right?

Not.

Conspiracies so or or conspiracies, yes, by technical definition, but not not made-up so but I mean the ultimate one is you're living in a construct being controlled by American.

Yeah, I've been.

I've been very conspiratory tonight.

1:28:30

Yeah, honestly.

And I know people are going to look at me and say, OK, you know, I'm, I'm passionate about my work.

And it's honestly, man, it's kind of saved my life, you know, is I found something I'm good at or kind of good at.

It's like the only thing I'm good at that and eating chicken wings and ranch baby.

1:28:47

That's all I'm good at.

So, but yeah, man.

So I don't know what what's going to happen in the future.

I I just, I don't believe in the narratives.

I really don't.

I think that a lot of these people have not actually studied the phenomenology.

You know, Jim Suman said something other day, it's fascinating an interview.

1:29:03

He's like, look, it's like if you really want to know the phenomenon, look at mythology, look at folklore.

He's like you're, you're going to.

Have to to research like a cultural anthropologist to get a hold and a handle on this and I found that to be true because you think this is the same.

1:29:19

Phenomena that's been going on, because I was going to ask you before, like, so are the Aztecs experiencing this in the Maya and the Inca and the Egyptians and, you know, everybody's experiencing this everywhere in the world, of course, I mean.

Alex, you know the great in his diary.

Here's a wrench for you.

1:29:34

I'll just, you know, throw a wrench and everything.

It's like one of these data points where it's like, oh, crap.

You know, like, oh, no.

Here's Alexander the Great, his diary.

He's like, look, he's like, I was wanting to invade a city, but the walls were too large.

And out of nowhere, here comes a flying shield that zaps it with a with light.

1:29:53

It explodes the wall and they go in and conquer.

Really.

Yes.

Yes.

I mean, OK, like, you know, it's so many cases, but yeah, what we're looking at is a species that's manipulating history.

It's here.

1:30:11

It's here.

Well, I thought they're out there.

No, no, no, no, they're they're they're here and they're invisible and they live in a different reality.

And that.

And here's what's even worse is when they want to enter our reality, Right.

1:30:27

For instance.

OK, Betty Luca a tongue talking and I could say this because I grew up in a holy roller, right?

Yeah, Praetor kids to the Holy Ghost downstairs in her basement.

She was, as you know, at least from my background, like she's a solid, solid Christian.

1:30:44

Very, very, very strict King King James version only by the way, which I grew up in that too, buddy.

Oh man.

Yeah.

Anything else, boy, let's build that stake and bring that King James is a great.

Guy, from what I hear, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Definitely want to hang out with him, but man.

1:31:00

So here she is.

She's in her living room, right?

She's got her.

She's got her.

Her in laws over.

I think it was her parents.

One of the two just hanging out, you know, and she's cooking food.

You know what?

What about?

I'll tell you what.

How is Aunt Becky doing?

I don't know.

All sudden, boom.

Her parents are like this.

1:31:17

Yeah.

I can't believe it.

Oh no.

In in.

Suspended animation.

Whoa, yeah.

And I keep telling people like, we better hope they're demons like it in terms of like the worst case scenario, we better hope they're just demons.

1:31:35

Demons you tame.

Compared brother.

Literally they're like and that's in in fruit walks through the wall, The door walks, didn't open.

The door walks right through it.

Now it's not locked in the door.

And it 3 or. 4 entities by the way.

1:31:53

OK, now this is fascinating that they walked into the construct.

The construct was not real when they didn't want it to be real.

Dead.

Get passionate now again.

They didn't want it to be.

Real.

And and when they.

1:32:09

Didn't want it to be real.

It wasn't real for them.

There wasn't a Ding Dong.

Hello.

You know.

Would you like some Girl Scout cookies?

It was just walking right through the door.

You're in suspended animation.

I'm only here for you, Betty.

And Betty is going what happened to my family?

1:32:26

I mean, literally, their eyes are open in the entity again when they wanted reality to be real, right again.

They they walked through the wall or the door.

OK, now you can touch them How?

1:32:43

And, and, and the entity goes, I want, I want truth tried by fire.

And she's like, I don't understand what you mean.

Like she's again, she's she's terrified, but she's like, what do you mean by that?

Truth tried by fire?

And so she's like, I don't know, fire.

She's like, I guess I'll give you some food.

1:32:59

You know, I don't know what's going on.

You know, I'm cooking a stove on a stove, whatever.

And he's like, no, no, not only food I want that points to her Bible.

It's nuts.

And so she gets the Bible.

OK.

He pulls out a device again, and he's waving his hand over each page in in from the Bible into the box.

1:33:24

This is really crazy stuff, by the way, but it's fascinating.

It's it's she's transferring all that information into this box and then they leave.

What do you do with that?

What do you do with that?

Well, again, people like, well, it's all horns and hoes.

1:33:40

It's like we got a problem because even in demonology, there are cases where they weren't demons, right?

In demonology, like in the field, in the literature, they were like, well, that doesn't make sense.

So whatever we're dealing with again, I mean, at every turn it seems like there are demons.

1:33:57

Like, do you think that that's a real phenomenon?

Oh, what is it always been this?

Or oh.

Go ahead, go ahead with that.

I'm just.

Like try, you know?

I mean, you know, I read Enoch, it says that they're the, the, the Nephilim's disincarnated spirits, right?

1:34:17

And then, but then like, then you talk to church people, they're like they're fallen angels.

And then I, I don't know where they get that.

But then, you know, has it always been this?

I guess that's what I'm wondering.

It could be.

It could.

Be, you know, the thing I mean, OK, let's go going back to the Collins elite.

1:34:33

I mean, the document that I'm in possession of it talks about how that these governmental practitioners just make a determiner were contacting the phenomenon to the point where they were becoming possessed by it.

1:34:51

And the Vatican was sending exorcists to Air Force bases, right?

Oh my God, I can only imagine the other day.

That they said exorcisms are up like 400%.

1:35:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, man.

And I just can't imagine that, right?

Like you check into work and it's like, all right, let's look at the radar.

And this other guy's like, oh God, what's going on, Reggie, what happened to you?

1:35:24

And they're doing the whole thing.

I would, I'd, I'd be out.

But yeah, they had to have dozens of exorcisms because so, you know, The thing is with with the way people research is they find like 3 or 4 data points and they say that is this.

You know.

IA lot of Muslim exorcist and researchers follow my work and and some of them are like, you know, I see the data points.

1:35:49

That's cool.

But others are like.

Well, because they they, they, they check three boxes.

They got to be gin.

They got to be gin.

So what happens is they use being kind of a.

Plasmoid, yeah.

Demon.

Genie.

Self Islam, right?

1:36:06

But the problem is, again, it's like when people say that like because I know Eric Davos was mentioned that at the contact in the desert lecture, he did all some of the data points to a Gen.

It's like, well, what is that?

Because when people talk about Gen. right, it's usually smokeless fire.

It's like, yeah, but Orps, here's what?

1:36:23

Because at least in genealogy, I guess, right?

That sounds like a a bartending thing.

Genealogy.

Welcome to genealogy.

Yeah, you know, there's demonology.

I don't know.

But my point is even in, in, in gene research, like they said that these things procreate with women and it's like, I don't see an org doing that.

1:36:45

That's kind of weird.

You know, that's weird.

So I think again, that we, we got to be careful with the data points and how we interpret them because people are using the data here we go to validate their dogma, right?

And it's this.

And if it is this, then I'm right.

1:37:00

And then it leads all the way back to their world view.

So it's really not about the data.

It's about them pushing their world view.

Yeah, we're just going to have a nation full of people whose brains are so scrambled by all this, like, no one's going to be out.

And I there is this nuts and bolts narrative that I think is very attractive to a technologically advancing society like ours.

1:37:22

So it's like, oh, it's technology.

That's our thing anyway, so this is good, you know, so be it.

Be an interesting decade, that's for sure.

It's going to be interesting, man.

I just, I want to go back to 90s Yeah, I know I'm almost 42 man, but I, I.

Hear.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know how?

Good, we had it right.

1:37:38

Bro I I don't know.

How old you are, man?

I'm 37 and I'm like 48.

I'll be 40.

Eight.

Oh my God, I'm just.

Kidding.

What?

No man, you look good for 48 dude.

I figured you were like my age, living that healthy.

Lifestyle, you know you are dude out.

There in Maine so I I would look like that too if I was in Maine.

1:37:56

It's easy, you just gotta move.

I know man.

It all comes.

That's it, right?

No.

Just move.

No.

But.

I am OK, Well, I mean, I get, I don't know really how to leave it.

It's set except it because it's just so like strange.

But I I think what's valuable here is that.

1:38:14

It is it.

Stretches the worldview substantially to think of it in this way, or at least to entertain these ideas, because the alternative narrative doesn't really make sense.

Like all I flew here for.

Like, how could you sit down and do a meditation and then beings fly from light years away from another planet and get here right away?

1:38:30

That's makes no sense to me at all.

It can't be that, no?

And there's evidence that's another rabbit hole too.

And I know we're out of time here, pal, but there's evidence, there's evidence that the CE5 practitioners, that it's their own consciousness they're seeing and they're projecting.

1:38:49

Oh, that's yeah, OK.

And they're like, look, it's a UAP and it's like, no, that's you pal.

The problem is what is that?

And I do believe that they've classified consciousness.

I mean, I have I have a book behind me here and back there where is on demonology and it goes all the way back like the 12th century and where a king had hired A sorcerer to project an alter ego out of himself into another environment.

1:39:21

There's a two places by location and that alter ego, the extension of his consciousness would pick up what's going on in that environment and it would come back right.

So I think a lot of that is what's taking place and the phenomenon is triggering that.

And we're going around like, oh, this is cool, CE5, look at that.

1:39:38

It's like, no doc, you don't understand what just right, I'm going to use this again.

Crawled out of your consciousness.

You're going to go home with something.

And.

You won't like it.

So I do believe that consciousness itself is being classified by our government and classified like.

1:39:58

Not classified like categorized, classified like classified.

Hidden in general view, absolutely.

Wow, so.

That might be wow, that's what this is because I actually did grab another quota viewers.

You said possession is designed to impregnate the observer effect.

1:40:17

It's neuro parasitology, it's consciousness that's being classified.

I was like, what on earth does that mean?

One.

Of my crazy quotes buddy.

One of those late but but.

Yeah, OK.

The observer effect is.

This thing we've been.

1:40:33

Talking about absolutely when you.

Observe it.

It collapses now.

This is why.

You know I I've had.

Cases where you'll have like 3 people looking at the same entity and none of them agree on what it looks like.

1:40:50

Why?

Because when you observe it, it, it, it has control over what you collapse it into again.

So there is this, it's a Co creation of the interface.

It's a shadow person peripherally, right?

And then when I look at it, it collapses itself into something I'm familiar with.

1:41:11

So it's in control.

Now, does it need the observer effect to be activated?

Yes.

That's why it seeks to be seen, friend.

Right, but that.

But in addition to that, it'll say, OK, look at me.

And then when we look at, it'll collapse itself and it controls collapse me into this interface.

1:41:29

Would you?

Why?

Because I don't want you to really see me mythologizing when you say collapse.

You mean that it it takes a form?

Yes.

Yeah, it adjusts goes from like orb projection.

And of of a morphism to something with morphology that probably is based off some expectation or something.

1:41:49

Right.

Check this out, buddy.

Contact in the desert just occurred last weekend and a group of CE5 practitioners were all there and they're all like, you know, Googling over the sky and everything like, Oh my God, it's amazing.

I put this on my Instagram and I don't honestly, some people got it, some people didn't.

1:42:06

Whatever.

Point being is that one of the witnesses said look at the orb, it's turning into an entity they captured on film.

Look at it and here's the orb.

But all of a sudden you see it, right?

The interface being constructed.

1:42:23

Now, what they did is the same thing we've done in the field.

They witnessed the mask being built and they said, well, that is really what it is.

No, it was literally right.

1:42:40

And so they go around and it's like, OK, we have if you do that, OK.

If you go do that kind of research for the next 100 years we have, we will never get anywhere because witnessing the mask being constructed is not the same as witnessing who is constructing it again.

1:42:59

They'll go around.

OK Lord Auerbach, right.

Oh, there's an or projecting an apparition.

That's what it was doing in the problem I'm having now that it's it's kept me up because, you know, you're like, I'd probably stay up all night sometimes I do, pal.

I really do.

I'm an idol.

But here's what keeps me up.

We know.

1:43:15

For a fact, again with Katzke's drawing a paralyzed like OK guys, if you want to study ufology, go into awnings, right?

We're not even studying UFOs.

So keep that in mind.

My point is that we have seen balls of light, and not just balls of light like beams and and and contortions and variations of it in haunted houses.

1:43:36

Now they're projecting constructs.

Boom boom boom.

What's the difference between?

That in the sky, if you took that and put it in the air, that's a UAP.

The altitude does not change its ability to project constructs.

1:43:57

Question for Everybody's going to Watch listeners.

What have they been projecting in our skies?

Altitude.

Doesn't matter, just put them up there.

Doesn't matter.

They're still going again.

And that's what happened, a contact to the desert friend, and they didn't get it because they don't know the phenomenon.

1:44:18

They don't know the phenomenology.

Look at this.

It's a being coming out of the orb.

And here's what they said.

It's an alien week really, because I guess they're ghosts too.

Do you think when these?

Like, Grays come and they take people and they go on the ship.

Are they just not going anywhere?

Are they still in their bed?

1:44:34

Like so?

Oh yeah, yeah.

So there's a research that came out recently.

There's annoying.

Isn't that they're all physical?

It's not.

No, they're not.

Clearly not.

No, I think that a lot of them are physical abductions.

Some of them aren't, you know, even in the book of Brahma Opera Mellon the Mage, for those who are bookworms like I am, read the book and you're looking at a guy who who he's a practitioner, but he finally goes and meets Auburn Allen.

1:45:00

But before that, he's going all around the world and, and looking at various esoteric traditions.

And he meets this lady and this lady saying, listen, I can fly, right.

Wow.

What do you mean you can fly?

Like, you can physically lift off the ground.

He's like, yeah, she's like, yeah, I can get off the ground.

1:45:17

I can fly in the air and stuff because I don't believe that at all.

She goes, no, no, no.

I promise you.

Watch this.

So she ingests A potion, leaves her body and flies for 45 minutes.

He couldn't see her because she didn't go anywhere.

When she gets back into her body, she swears to him, See, I told you I left.

1:45:37

He said you never left.

Your body was still here.

So there are there are embodied, I guess, physical abductions that they're astral abductions.

The problem we're having now, and this is a document in Betty Lucas case as well, where the phenomenon will trigger by location, right where you can observe it again, a conscious connection is made and now and now you're outside of your own body.

1:46:00

You're in two places at the same time.

Daniel and people have witnessed that Betty Luca was about to go to bed one night.

She's walking to a room.

Bob, her husband, is sitting at the edge at the foot of the bed, putting a socks on out of nowhere.

He's out of his body.

1:46:17

He's witnessed in two places at the same time in that he's witnessed.

Somewhere else, he's witness.

Buddy.

Now here's the.

Issue Years and years ago, there were researchers that said, well, we know it's physical because there are physical marks on the body, right?

1:46:34

They actually did something to you.

But that's not the case in every every instance because Betty Luca had out of body abductions, but when she got back into her body, her body still manifested scoop marks.

1:46:52

So it's again.

And this gets back into some of the ancient is Israelite mythology where it's sulfur skin.

Second, I mean, let's go, let's go into oh God, leprosy and antiquity and biblical antiquity.

So.

The authors of the.

1:47:08

Bible knew that there was a species of false prophets and it's in the book of Ezekiel chapter 13.

And when you met them, when you encountered them, you would come down with a skin condition.

Look that up.

Oh, that'll freak.

1:47:23

You out dude.

Ezekiel chapter 13 in In God's talking about Soul Hunters, a species of occultists who were hunting souls and pulling them out of their own bodies.

So it's it's really.

Deep and dark stuff man.

1:47:40

We live in a complex.

World, huh?

Or a complex construct.

Something, brother?

Something.

Wow.

All right, all right then.

Well.

I I'm going to revisit Dark City Ezekiel 13, and if I see one of these things come my way, I'm not looking at it.

1:47:59

That's my don't look at it I'd.

Charge it rent.

I would charge it rent or or borrow some money off of it.

I'm just joking, dude.

Nathaniel, it's been.

Great to talk to you dude.

Where do we send people?

Obviously you're Instagram, you're pretty active over there.

Yeah, it's I don't even want to be on Instagram anymore, honestly.

1:48:14

I have to though.

I know.

Oh, I do.

We're all in the same boat.

Hey, here's a hard time job, but you don't get paid for it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

But if you don't do it, you.

Lose everything you you do.

Really.

I mean, I need the machine dude.

And then you got to like be.

Careful.

Like I had a friend that had like.

1:48:31

He had a.

It was.

Actually a Facebook page where he had like 300,000 followers and he was, you know, running ads and stuff and, and making money and out of nowhere, I mean he was making thousands of dollars a a month on his and he woke up one day and he demonetized them.

1:48:47

You're gone, you're done.

It's like that's, you know, God by so you say this type of thing.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

On Instagram, I'm Nathaniel Gillis.

You can subscribe to my YouTube channel under my same the same name.

If you want, you could support me by becoming a part of Paris Symposio where I put out videos every week about my crazy mind and my crazy research.

1:49:07

Dude, it has been an absolute blast.

Wait wait, one more thing.

Is your book you?

Have a book coming out or is it out?

I'm working on it.

Skinny crawls.

Yeah, I'm working on.

That in a book called Larva the crawling within it's.

Pretty creepy sounding, bro.

Yeah, Yeah.

Well.

1:49:23

Well, my goal being, I want to get out of OK, I want to get out of like the author genre.

I want to do a short film.

I want to put this on, you know, screen to where people can fully embrace the research, but that's that's where I'm at, buddy again, man, Maine, Maine, Maine, Maine, Maine, Maine, come on up.

1:49:47

I'm.

Lobster just.

Making, man, huh?

Yeah, Dude, I got to go to Kinnenbunkport.

I've got to go to just a bunch of places.

Dude, I want to sit by the dock and I want to eat me a good lobster roll and some good chowder.

1:50:02

Yeah, we got.

We have it bro.

This is this is the time right now, man.

Don't tell.

Me that, yeah.

You need, you need some.

You need some of that simple life.

Yeah, get away from this stuff for a minute.

I'd love that.

Dude, from time to time I'll put on Christopher Cross, right, silly?

1:50:20

And I'll just like, yeah, you ever heard that song?

Oh my goodness.

And I'll be like imagining like I'll be getting bumped.

And then I realized like I'm in Dayton, OH, and all I got is Taco Bell and McDonald's and a Walmart.

I'm like, Oh my God.

All right, buddy, thank you for having me on, man.

1:50:38

Thank you so much for.

Today man, really appreciate you.